Metamagic: Selective Spell

[Agent]

I've only played Kingmaker/Wrath and not the PnP Pathfinder, so can someone confirm my understanding that this feat is for spells like Fireball or other blasters so they don't cause friendly fire and that most crowd control spells like pit or web have a duration and so still hit your buddies?

[Morgian]

Yes.

[Agent]

short and sweet, thanks for the response.

[Ninjamancer]

From my experience so far (and limited memory), it feels like it's flat out making your party immune to whatever spell it's applied to - I swear I've done selective Web and not had issues, but I haven't super been paying attention on those. However, I can confirm that Selective Sirocco doesn't touch your allies for sure - that one I remember!

[Agent]

If it makes your guys immune to your CC spells like web/grease/pit that would be super OP and a bug if my understanding (which Morgian seems to have confirmed) is right!

I'd just take the feat and test except for the respec bug, I don't want to respec at all until its fixed. Although I suppose I could just save beforehand, respec to test, and then reload the save. That should be fine.

[Pheace]

Originally posted by Agent:

If it makes your guys immune to your CC spells like web/grease/pit that would be super OP and a bug if my understanding (which Morgian seems to have confirmed) is right!

Why would it be a bug? That's the point of the metamagic. It literally says "These targets are excluded from the effects of your spell"

The only thing that is questionable with the description is that it says you're supposed to select a number of targets based on your ability score, but I imagine that's probably been gamified because doing that every cast would get tiring incredibly quickly.

[Agent]

You literally skipped the previous sentence which explains why.

"When casting a selective spell with an area effect and a duration of instantaneous"

Webs have a duration of 1 min/lvl. Grease has a duration of 1 min/lvl. Instantaneous spells are things like fireball or lightning bolt evocations or CC spells that happen instantly rather than in clouds likes stinking cloud.

[Pheace]

Originally posted by Agent:

You literally skipped the previous sentence which explains why.

"When casting a selective spell with an area effect and a duration of instantaneous"

Webs have a duration of 1 min/lvl. Grease has a duration of 1 min/lvl. Instantaneous spells are things like fireball or lightning bolt evocations or CC spells that happen instantly rather than in clouds likes stinking cloud.

Touche, I did fail to notice that part. I wonder if they're going to change it. (though it'll be sorely missed...)

[Agent]

Oh it definitely does currently apply to webs and stuff? I won't bother testing it then, thanks.

Web is so hard to use because of how large it is that I imagine making it selective would be excellent but yeah its not supposed to do that.

[Balekai]

It's either a bug or Owlcat is allowing it to effect spells like Grease. There's a lot of builds around like on Neoseeker that use selective spell with all CC duration spells and I tested out Grease myself. PnP description:

Metamagic: Selective Spell

Your allies need not fear friendly fire.

Prerequisite: Spellcraft 10 ranks.

Benefit: When casting a selective spell with an area effect and a duration of instantaneous, you can choose a number of targets in the area equal to the ability score modifier used to determine bonus spells of the same type (Charisma for bards, oracles, paladins, sorcerers, and summoners; Intelligence for witches and wizards; Wisdom for clerics, druids, inquisitors, and rangers). These targets are excluded from the effects of your spell.

Level Increase: +1 (a selective spell uses up a spell slot one level higher than the spell’s actual level.)

Spells that do not have an area of effect or a duration of instantaneous do not benefit from this feat.

Its pretty clear, but again Owlcat may be "bending the rules" or house rules here so the Metamagic is more popular. Or Owlcat might be reading it like: "Well when an enemy or ally goes into the cloud/pit, the initial check "IS" an *instantaneous duration*!" Mythic Tricksters at heart, all of them. :p :P

I myself prefer it not work and that parties need to take the usual counter measures (which protect you from enemy CC as well) like party wide Delay Poison, Freedom of Movement, Death Ward, A Life Bubble here or there etc.

[Agent]

If the initial check is an instantaneous duration then what wouldn't be instantaneous duration! Maybe they did it since it's harder to use persistent CC spells in real time instead of turn based and they have that weird slavish devotion to the idea that real time is how you should play.

Although the problem I usually run into isn't getting the initial cast in the right place but knowing how close to the edge I can get without falling/getting trapped. I wish there was a way to highlight the actual edge (which seems to be slightly different from the visual edge).

[Agent]

I'll stick with delay poison communal and freedom of movement I guess, selective CC seems too much like just turning off friendly fire entirely in terms of dumbing it down.

[Balekai]

What I want to desperately test is if the protection from Selective Spell goes beyond party or modifier cap. If it works for all allied NPCs w/o a cap then its really OP. Like you said basically, it would be like the no FF difficulty option, but a meta spell version that can be used in higher difficulties.

[Agent]

I have a save immediately before the tavern defense where I'm level 5. I suppose I could respec Nenio and take Selective Spell. Make a meta Level 2 Web --> Level 3 Selective Web and then cast it on the big group of allies near Irabeth. Is that the situation you mean? If it doesn't hit them I have to imagine it would never hit any non-enemies.

[Balekai]

Yep the exact situation. I went back to my chapter 1 ascension area with my allies in toe. I casted a few greases and ran around. No one was effected by the Grease.

This is essentially a must have meta magic for CCers. You can't CC/kill your own party members or troops in special events.