Whats the point of playing a Dhampir?

[Stechhelm]

Its annoying. I expected Jahethal abilitys but got a castrated version of an undead with only the disadvatages and almost no benefits at all.

[RocketMan]

Ursprungligen skrivet av wendigo211:

They're the only race that lets you get a +2 to STR and INT, granted that comes with a -2 to DEX... Still, I suppose if you were making a strength based wizard gish it would be the go to race. However, the Hellknight Signifier has some issues with it, so you aren't making one anytime soon.

There's a relic that lets you use INT instead of strength. So it becomes kinda pointless unless you want a more powerful weapon later.

[DarkWaterSong]

Dhampir work well if someone in the party can spam harm living and harm spells. So a neutral or evil cleric. Also this game gives you but loads of scrolls of harm, so if your Dhampir can use them...heal ho. Now if you have that, Dhampirs make for good front line troops. I am talking rangers, fighters, and anyone that is build for more Str than Dex (high Con is must), but you need the reverse heal support.

[Balekai]

Ok, so I did what I could to test what actually happens when you use commanding Infusion with Toy Box. First of all, by using Commanding Infusion you get a 10 second personal buff/window, to animate your undead so they get the buff from the ability. For those that want to look at any summon's stats/buffs, use Toy Box mod by going to party editor and go to "All" submenu:

My first test was without any Augment summoning feats.

- Using Party Editor to check, the ability commanding Infusion does give the animated creatures Augment Summoning as a buff. I have no way of actually seeing if its truly applying because Toy Box doesn't show moded stats it seems as I mentioned a few posts ago.

Then i reloaded (to get rid of summon clutter) and manually added augment summoning feat from the mod to my character.

- Animate Dead did not have augment summoning buff on them using the feat augment summoning, as per PnP rules.

Then I tested Ascendant Summons too and good news:

- Added Ascendant Summons through Toy Box, animated my undead and they had the buff! Rejoice your undead army ignores DR except N/- and actually gets some good stat benefits. Also you don't need any other augment summoning feats to take Mythic Ascendant Summons.

Big takeaways/TLDR:

- Don't take augment summoning line with undead only summons because there's no effect. It does nothing.
- Cruoromancer is giving the Augment Summoning buff to your summons if you cast within 10 seconds of using the infusion. However, because they're undead, they only benefit from the +4 STR and not the +4 CON (the stat should be "-" if we could see it). Is it really worth taking this archetype for +4 STR buffing ability to animate dead that costs life until level 20? Probably not. :)
- You should ABSOLUTELY take Ascendant Summons mythic feat. A must have on any summon build because it works with ALL summons.
*All of this is subject to the buffs actually taking effect, because I can't see whether or not they apply to stats with Toy Box. Only that they're active.*

[taelengar]

Ursprungligen skrivet av The Hat:

So you can heal yourself along with your raised dead, or repurposed undead at the same time, using things like channel, along with your pets if you make them deathtouched (or mythic undead). The lich gets a restore undead spell that heals every undead fully on top of that, which is incredibly powerful.

If you are more into casting you can drop AOE's which don't effect you on top of yourself for example.

And if you run a full Dhampir party, this really comes into its own.

[Imp0815]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Balekai:

Ok, so I did what I could to test what actually happens when you use commanding Infusion with Toy Box. First of all, by using Commanding Infusion you get a 10 second personal buff/window, to animate your undead so they get the buff from the ability. For those that want to look at any summon's stats/buffs, use Toy Box mod by going to party editor and go to "All" submenu:

My first test was without any Augment summoning feats.

- Using Party Editor to check, the ability commanding Infusion does give the animated creatures Augment Summoning as a buff. I have no way of actually seeing if its truly applying because Toy Box doesn't show moded stats it seems as I mentioned a few posts ago.

Then i reloaded (to get rid of summon clutter) and manually added augment summoning feat from the mod to my character.

- Animate Dead did not have augment summoning buff on them using the feat augment summoning, as per PnP rules.

Then I tested Ascendant Summons too and good news:

- Added Ascendant Summons through Toy Box, animated my undead and they had the buff! Rejoice your undead army ignores DR except N/- and actually gets some good stat benefits. Also you don't need any other augment summoning feats to take Mythic Ascendant Summons.

Big takeaways/TLDR:

- Don't take augment summoning line with undead only summons because there's no effect. It does nothing.
- Cruoromancer is giving the Augment Summoning buff to your summons if you cast within 10 seconds of using the infusion. However, because they're undead, they only benefit from the +4 STR and not the +4 CON (the stat should be "-" if we could see it). Is it really worth taking this archetype for +4 STR buffing ability to animate dead that costs life until level 20? Probably not. :)
- You should ABSOLUTELY take Ascendant Summons mythic feat. A must have on any summon build because it works with ALL summons.
*All of this is subject to the buffs actually taking effect, because I can't see whether or not they apply to stats with Toy Box. Only that they're active.*

Yes this is complete horsemanure. When you cast the animate Dead spell with the command infusion they get a double buff. Meaning they get the Ascend Summon buff. god knows why this is the only way but hey at least the feat was not competly wasted.

[archonsod]

Ursprungligen skrivet av thrythlind:

They don't suffer penalties from level drain (but level drain will still kill them) so like a -2 level won't reduce their abilities, but if they get to level 0 they die like anyone else and they have to clear negative levels like anyone else.

Unlike everyone else though, when fighting something that causes level drain they don't find themselves getting progressively less able to actually fight. Which is kind of useful.

And they have the thing where positive energy hurts them. There's ample ability to get Inflict potions and scrolls though, so you end up with a pool of healing for just your character.

The AI also seems incapable of grasping that channelling negative energy towards the one with the pointy teeth isn't a good idea.

[Naked Granny]

Ursprungligen skrivet av thrythlind:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Aunt Tony:

Neither is it something you should get *rewarded* for, either.

If you *really* actually wanted to be a heroic vampire, you wouldn't care what the mechanical benefits are. Also, Dhampirs are not vampires. That's kind of the entire explicit exact *point* behind Dhampirs existing.

I speak in terms of flavor here. Dhampir narratively are not vampires, but they are the player acceptable vampire flavor in the game.

And I didn't say be rewarded for it. I said not be punished. Having weaknesses can be fun, but being given a mechanical weakness in exchange for a purely narrative flavor is irritating.

Dhampir is not quite that bad. I've seen much worse. Otherwise I wouldn't have continued with this character.

Side note, I mostly took Life-Dominant Soul because I didn't want my clerics to accidentally hurt me when they're healing the party.

Dhampir negative energy affinity is not a weakness.

It's just an alternative racial trait.

Why?

Because evil clerics don't spontaneously convert spells into positive energy, and they can't channel positive energy. If you are evil, being undead helps tremendously. And in this game, you can become a lich... and convert all your damage to negative energy. And then stand in the radius of your own nukes and heal yourself while also annihilating your foes.

Dhampir is game breakingly powerful... but only for some builds. That's not weakness. That's just situationality.

[suejak]

Hmm, I don't know anything about Pathfinder and I'm a noob at the game, but I've been finding my Dhampir nosferatu swordsman -> assassin pretty strong. The bite buff goes well with the ever-useful Slumber spell and I'm able to be real tanky with both high AC and high HP despite mediocre CON!

Looking forward to seeing if there are any disable synergies from Assassin skills for more chomping ;)

[Balekai]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Imp0815:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Balekai:

Ok, so I did what I could to test what actually happens when you use commanding Infusion with Toy Box. First of all, by using Commanding Infusion you get a 10 second personal buff/window, to animate your undead so they get the buff from the ability. For those that want to look at any summon's stats/buffs, use Toy Box mod by going to party editor and go to "All" submenu:

My first test was without any Augment summoning feats.

- Using Party Editor to check, the ability commanding Infusion does give the animated creatures Augment Summoning as a buff. I have no way of actually seeing if its truly applying because Toy Box doesn't show moded stats it seems as I mentioned a few posts ago.

Then i reloaded (to get rid of summon clutter) and manually added augment summoning feat from the mod to my character.

- Animate Dead did not have augment summoning buff on them using the feat augment summoning, as per PnP rules.

Then I tested Ascendant Summons too and good news:

- Added Ascendant Summons through Toy Box, animated my undead and they had the buff! Rejoice your undead army ignores DR except N/- and actually gets some good stat benefits. Also you don't need any other augment summoning feats to take Mythic Ascendant Summons.

Big takeaways/TLDR:

- Don't take augment summoning line with undead only summons because there's no effect. It does nothing.
- Cruoromancer is giving the Augment Summoning buff to your summons if you cast within 10 seconds of using the infusion. However, because they're undead, they only benefit from the +4 STR and not the +4 CON (the stat should be "-" if we could see it). Is it really worth taking this archetype for +4 STR buffing ability to animate dead that costs life until level 20? Probably not. :)
- You should ABSOLUTELY take Ascendant Summons mythic feat. A must have on any summon build because it works with ALL summons.
*All of this is subject to the buffs actually taking effect, because I can't see whether or not they apply to stats with Toy Box. Only that they're active.*

Yes this is complete horsemanure. When you cast the animate Dead spell with the command infusion they get a double buff. Meaning they get the Ascend Summon buff. god knows why this is the only way but hey at least the feat was not competly wasted.

Not quite sure what you mean by your reply. :)

To be more clear I tested three buffs:

1. Commanding Infusion. Which is supposed to give Animate Dead the benefit of Augment Summoning as per description. You do that by using the Infusion, then casting Animate Dead spell(s) during the 10 second period.
2. Augment Summoning Feat.
3. The mythic feat Ascendant Summons.

So:

1. Works as intended and as described. Adds Augment Summoning buff to your Animate Dead spell(s) cast in that 10 second period (the augment buff on these specific skellies will be perma until their death/despawn). Undead don't get +4 CON benefit because Undead don't use CON as a stat. I never saw the Ascendant Summoning buff pop up in Toy Box's list of buffs on my undead, while using commanding alone. Just the normal Augment Summoning buff.

2. Augment Summoning feat does not work at all, as intended and as in PnP. There is no Augment Summoning buff listed on spawned Animated creatures in this case (i'm not using commanding infusion at all here). Again, Animate/Create Dead are not summons. They're raise spells essentially but for dead mindless corpses/parts in the ground. You have to use Commanding Infusion to get Augment Summoning on them (at least Animate because create dead isn't in the description of Commanding Infusion).

3. Whether or not its intended, Ascendant Summons mythic ability does work and gives all its summon benefits to undead save for CON bonus. It's standalone so no need for any augment/superior summoning feats.

So do you mean that when Augment Summoning is taken and you use Commanding Infusion, it doubles up the buff? I didn't test that and unfortunately I won't be able to see if the buffs actually stack if true. If not, I could still test that anyways and see what happens. Like whether there's two Augment summoning buffs listed instead of one in Toy Box.

Edit: Tested no duplication of buffs.

[Lightning]

Ursprungligen skrivet av suejak:

Hmm, I don't know anything about Pathfinder and I'm a noob at the game, but I've been finding my Dhampir nosferatu swordsman -> assassin pretty strong. The bite buff goes well with the ever-useful Slumber spell and I'm able to be real tanky with both high AC and high HP despite mediocre CON!

Looking forward to seeing if there are any disable synergies from Assassin skills for more chomping ;)

I made my dhampir a necromancer caster pretty neat i don't have to worry about restoration for her atleast

[slight001]

I played a Dhampir Bloodrager Primalist for a while... RIP my glitched little hell breaker.

Frequently she was able to face tank an encounter because the AI doesn't scout, which is fine with me.

I have no idea what I am doing in pathfinder, I barely know what I'm doing in DnD based games, so I just kinda went with what fit the character.

Which is why I went with Dhampir, the story just filled itself in with a Dhampir raised in an orphanage and eventually kicked out because of the rage that boiled in her blood and called her into the wilds and promised power as her mother's ancient fae blood flowed and warred with her Dhampir heritage and the magic that was used in her creation.

[XartaX]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Hideka Valheim:

There is no point in playing Dhampir other than roleplay. they are probably the worst race in the entire game, despite the fact that they should be one of the far better races. Nothing they have actually does anything for them.

Their one racial specialty class, cruoromancer is so far beyond bad, that its pathetic. Its like a half baked idea that they gave up on. Its literally worse than every other wizard archetype at being a necromancer. Its so bad that Sorcerers make better necromancers. MAGI EVEN MAKE BETTER NECROMANCERS. ***CLERICS EVEN MAKE BETTER NECROMANCERS***

Biggest problems

1. Commanding infusion Functions IDENTICAL to Augmented Summons, but doesnt stack, and doesnt qualify for Superior Summons. Until you're full swing On litch, your summons wont be worth ♥♥♥♥ all.
2. Focused Infusion Blows ass. +1 Caster DC, for anywhere from 1/2 to 1/10th your life per cast is absurd. This should be changed to +1 Caster DC for ALL Spells for 10 Minutes/Level for Level x 2~4 Life as a one time cost.
3. Sickening Infusion is even worse as 90% of the things in this game are immune to sickening anyways.
4. None of your clerics, or available party members that can effectively multi class into cleric, are 'evil' alignment, making it impossible for them to effectively support you, and forcing you to waste a feat so that channeling doesnt kill you.

Changes i'd make.

1. Add a Racial - Deathborne: +1 to Caster level and DC for Necromancy spells OR Hypnotic: Add +1DC and Caster Level to all Enchantment spells
2. Cruormancer - Change DC increase on focused infusion from +1 per spell, to +1 for all spells for x minutes per level.
3. Cruormancer - Commanding Infusion: Have the Feature ALSO include Superior Summoning Feat effects at level 8, and allow both to stack with the Acutal feats for Augmented/Superior Summons.
5. Add Cruormancer 'unique' spells, at level 5, 8, 11, 14, 17, and 20 that fall in line with the abilities a greater vampire would have at those levels (Bat/rat/wolf summons, Gaseous form, Swarm form, Dominate, Change shape, etc), and give them "Vampire Slots" within their spell book for setting these, similar to how favorite school slots operate.

There's quite a lot of misinformation here...

1. Augmented and superior summons don't apply to skeletons at all. Animate dead are NOT summons. So yes, the ability definitely has a purpose.
2. Focused is great. +1 DC is amazing for any caster. Also, once you hit 20 all your infusions don't cost any HP. But really, the hp cost is negligible after the early game.
3. Use it if it's effective, don't if it's not. It's very good on targets where it does work.
4. a) Liches get channel energy themselves b) mercs are a thing c) positive channeling doesn't hurt you when it's used to heal. It just doesn't heal you.

And as a footnote, dhampir mercs are amazing as a cruoromancer lich main.

[CelticMutt]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Tourak:

Ursprungligen skrivet av T.W. Hamill:

One thing i will say that i really disliked in D&D settings was the sudden prevalance of really rare races or races that didnt belong in certain settings after 3.0 came around.

Like.. Tieflings (And later, Aasimar, who were released in a later supplement) were a great addition... for Planescape. Same with Githzerai.

But then in 3.0 and the setting revamps that came with it, there were all of a sudden Tieflings and Aasimar (sp?) everywhere in all the offical settings and it was just like... WTFM8.

I cant even look at the character roster for BG3 without wanting to throw up in my mouth a little at how its literally just snowflake improbable characters one after the other almost half of which have no place in the Realms at all.

That's a 4e/Pf thing, not 3.0/3.5e thing. 3e only had the regular basic race from 2e + Half-Orc. Tiefling were in another book and I don't recall hearing of Aasimar before 4e/Pf. They did have template I think in either the DM or Monster Guide.

Tieflings and Assimar both came from the D&D 2e setting Planescape, around 94 for Tieflings and 95 or 96 for Aasimar. Oreads too, under their D&D name Earth Genasi. All of them were player races from the moment they were introduced.

[cjwasright]

A Cruoromancer is not a munckin friendly class, but for those who want a challenge without needlessly gimping their character (like on most cavalier subclasses) it still remains an attractive option in the wizard subcategory. It's basically a Wizard+, having most of the features of the Wizard without any serious downsides. When choosing a cruoro keep in mind that you aren't "optimizing" anything. What you see is what you get - a highly situational set of skills and bonuses that come with the kit.

The infusion isn't as bad as it seems, since most of the time the cruoro is kept safely away from getting hit, and the extra +1 to DC comes in handy at the start of the game when most enemeis have little in the way of saves. Cause fear,scare and summon skeletons are your bread and butter spells in the first half of the game, particularly in acts 1-3 where they can be incredibly useful at CC during difficult fights. After that most enemies would likely be too powerful to be affected by skeletons. Infused Skeles hit quite hard, a pack of 4 managed to hack down a Vescator queen boss in a single round, that the rest of my party had trouble chipping away at.

However it should be noted that cruoro to a lich is what armiger is to a hellknight. Meaning that unless you are going down the corporate career of a lich, there's little reason why you should level up a cruoro, unless you really want to roleplay one for some reason. Lich fixes many of the vulnerabilities of the base class and fits quite well with the theme, though one might argue there are better necro options from a gameplay perspective, none of them fit as well in terms of roleplaying.

So all in all it's really not hte best not the worst class. It's a bit underwhelming but you aren't losing out on much. If you want the spell slot magic experience. a different wizard class would probably serve you better, but in all honesty you can build a perfectly fine necromancer lich.

[XartaX]

There's nothing situational about +1 to your DC's and better animate dead (one of the best summon spells in the game, besides mythic summons). That's about as generally awesome as you can get. Making your save or die/suck spells harder to dodge (e.g. Wail of the Banshee) is really good.