I don't think the devs understand how dispel magic works.

[faolanthehedgehog]

The DC to dispel a spell using targeted dispel is 11 + caster level, but the caster level for enemy spells always seems to be equal to their HD, not their caster level. Case in point, there is a boss monster that is Outsider 19, Bloodrager 7. I try to cast dispel magic to get rid of Mirror Image, and the DC was 37. But in tabletop, the DC would have only been 15 (Bloodrager 7 means CL 4th), and outsider HD do not increase caster level.

[Bastion]

actually, outsiders of certain types count as casters and they also stack, also caster level for bloodragers is full casting even though they dont get there spells until 4th level.

[faolanthehedgehog]

Huh. I always figured the bloodrager functioned like a paladin or ranger for effective caster level.

As for the outsider levels, there is nothing in the Derakni monster entry that says they get spells. Only spell-like abilities. And the caster levels for monster HD and classes wouldn't stack anyway.

[Bastion]

depends on the situation, but in my experience paladins and rangers have also always had full casting in kingmaker and wrath. I should stress that.

[faolanthehedgehog]

Even so, if it weren't for buff and healing spells, spellcasters would be absolutely useless in this game, given the ludicrously inflated saving throws, SR, and DC to dispel. 9 times out of 10, it seems like the enemies have at least a 75% chance of succeeding their saves, and there are a butt-ton of enemies that have Evasion where they absolutely shouldn't, like Ferocious Smilodons.

[Ryumanjisen]

You need all the Spell Penetration feats and the Ascendant Element mythic ability to make a spellcaster half useful in this game, at least an offensive one (buff are as OP as always).

And forget to use them against bosses, their saving throws are insanely high.

[T.W. Hamill]

Originally posted by Ryumanjisen:

You need all the Spell Penetration feats and the Ascendant Element mythic ability to make a spellcaster half useful in this game, at least an offensive one (buff are as OP as always).

And forget to use them against bosses, their saving throws are insanely high.

This has not been my experience.

The two main spell pen feats have sufficed to land at least half my spells all through chapter 3. I had no problem, for instance, KOing the spectres in Whitesun with Empowered + Bolstered Magic Missiles. About 2/3 of the missiles get through (as it checks SR for each missile).

And those things are SUBSTANTIALLY more powerful than the average mobs of that time in the campaign.

However, that doesn't change the fact that buffs are still a better use for most of the lower level spell slots simply because they are a better power multiplier than a few paltry 50-damage fireballs.

But it isnt THAT hard to stick spells as long as you have the spell pen feats, and i have to imagine having the Mythic Spell Pen feat (i dont have it yet on either of my blasters - Daeran or Nenio - its literally coming up next) and a few +pen items (you can get ~3 effective levels for most characters from items, more if you focus on certain elements) youd land at least 60% of your spells. Which is what you're going to be seeing against high AC mobs even at high level, for melee/physical dps, so that seems about right.

And there are PLENTY of spells that do not check SR. Use those if you're having an issue.

[Angry Trash]

Most of the spells I use as a Hellknight caster/Magus Scion, even with my ascendant elements, all try for SR which does hamper me quite a bit when the literal demon lords and their daughters just ignore all of my magic, so instead of doing my 178 damage spells I'm forced to do 3 ~22 damage hits with my dueling sword instead.

But also, dispel magic doesn't work as it should. You can use dispel magic "point" to remove an area of effect spell.. Except it doesn't work, and it does it as a touch target on yourself instead of the area effect spell you click on. Means that all of the NPCs you're trying to protect from that big old disease and mind fog stack are paste, and god just tells you to fellate yourself for trying.

[Mikeavelli]

Spell pen feats + mythic feat means spell penetration checks are pretty doable.

Some spells don't even check for spell penetration, including the entire Lich spell list. I tackled the dragon hunt far too early, none of my party could hit the thing, none of my spells could penetrate it, but I *could* spam lich direct damage spells until it died.

Magic missile + bolster is probably a bug, but it's the best direct damage in the game and nothing I've seen yet resists force damage

Most bosses have at least one low save, or a low touch AC. You have to throw the right spell at the right enemy, but when you do it's amazingly effective.

[Axe]

♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ I did it many stone elementals and skeletons fell in the battle but I did it. I kept spamming earth elementals and skeletons to bog him down in domain of the hungry flesh spell, then I kept spamming exsanguinate on him the entire time. I shot him with repurpose at the end to so now the ♥♥♥♥♥ is mine.

[phadin]

Originally posted by 76561198008296755:

Spell pen feats + mythic feat means spell penetration checks are pretty doable.

Some spells don't even check for spell penetration, including the entire Lich spell list. I tackled the dragon hunt far too early, none of my party could hit the thing, none of my spells could penetrate it, but I *could* spam lich direct damage spells until it died.

Magic missile + bolster is probably a bug, but it's the best direct damage in the game and nothing I've seen yet resists force damage

Most bosses have at least one low save, or a low touch AC. You have to throw the right spell at the right enemy, but when you do it's amazingly effective.

Yes, Bolster Spell is bugged with any spell that fires multiple blasts (Magic Missile, Scorching Ray, etc.) The bug is adding all the dice the spell is doing together to determine the bolster bonus, then adding that bolster bonus to every blast the spell produces. It 'should' only add the bolster bonus equal to one blast to each blast.

so a 5-shot magic missile is getting +10 to every missile instead of +2 (for a +50 total damage output.)

[T.W. Hamill]

Originally posted by phadin:

Originally posted by 76561198008296755:

Spell pen feats + mythic feat means spell penetration checks are pretty doable.

Some spells don't even check for spell penetration, including the entire Lich spell list. I tackled the dragon hunt far too early, none of my party could hit the thing, none of my spells could penetrate it, but I *could* spam lich direct damage spells until it died.

Magic missile + bolster is probably a bug, but it's the best direct damage in the game and nothing I've seen yet resists force damage

Most bosses have at least one low save, or a low touch AC. You have to throw the right spell at the right enemy, but when you do it's amazingly effective.

Yes, Bolster Spell is bugged with any spell that fires multiple blasts (Magic Missile, Scorching Ray, etc.) The bug is adding all the dice the spell is doing together to determine the bolster bonus, then adding that bolster bonus to every blast the spell produces. It 'should' only add the bolster bonus equal to one blast to each blast.

so a 5-shot magic missile is getting +10 to every missile instead of +2 (for a +50 total damage output.)

This was fixed in 1.03c, ‘unfortunately’

[Luchian]

So can anyone explain to me why Chivarro in the encounter in the slums after ousting her from TTD has a dispel DC of 43 -which is completely unreachable- on her Displacement effect, but only 26 on every other buff she has on her?

[S N E E D]

Originally posted by faolanthehedgehog:

Even so, if it weren't for buff and healing spells, spellcasters would be absolutely useless in this game, given the ludicrously inflated saving throws, SR, and DC to dispel. 9 times out of 10, it seems like the enemies have at least a 75% chance of succeeding their saves, and there are a butt-ton of enemies that have Evasion where they absolutely shouldn't, like Ferocious Smilodons.

Stack DC equipment on caster. Nenio can get DCs so high, most monsters require a 20 to save against her.

[Shahadem]

Welcome to the problems that come from the devs breaking the game by making enemy mobs way more powerful than they should be by stacking bonus stats and class levels ontop of the base mob character class.

The under the hood game mechanics are total trash. They require way too much ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ ooc metagaming to get around when it should all be NATURAL and LOGICAL.

If the game requires you to have to excessively stack buffs and stats then it is the game that is wrong and needs to be fixed.

[mudakonn]

They tried to satisfy hard-core and casual at the same time by giving so many difficulty options BUT achievements are still tied on core, so everybody will play on core no matter what and there is it.

On story you get like whopping -14 to enemy AC on lvl 14 so yeah, outlevel your MC, set difficulty to story:)