How do you make Summons not worthless?

[Holy Athena]

I have to say despite playing Kingmaker as well I still sometimes struggle to wrap my head around some of this.

This is the first time I've played around with actual summoning and focusing more on magic specific builds or more out of the way type of builds like summoner.

I tried to make Nenio a summon specific character, even gave her the Brazen whip, and other accessories for it, as well as special feats, and Mythic Path ascended SUmmons. etc.

Yet they still are utter garbage. They won't hit anything, and when they do its utterly crap damage, literally after 5-6 misses, 1 hit for 3 or 5 damage, when everything else is doing upwards of 30-50 dmg per hit. They get whacked down in 1 turn because most mobs end up striking 4-5 times a turn now.

I'm completely baffled what summons are supposed to do.. you can't use them as meat shields, they die too fast. You can't use them as supportive damage, they never hit anything..

You can't use them as "oh crap my back line got flanked" their initiative is so god aweful, everyone gets to move 2-3 times or more before they get to make their first move...

[Ashtrails]

In a game where a summoned dog can take a 40-80 hit to buy another round or act as a one time DR Infinity /Everything so I can win the ludicrous DPR race I think they're doing an okay job as meatshields : D

[BoogieMan]

Yeah, they seem utterly pointless even with the buffs and feats to support them.

+stats and ignoring daming reduction means nothing if the base unit is so helplessly inept they can't hit anything.

Then the enemy gets their turn and cleans out the lot of them with their multiattacks.

They're kinda meh as as a distraction, it kinda works but that's not fun and having the extra feats and such don't make any difference, and instead of choosing abilities and wasting turns with them you could just deal with the enemy directly.

[Amoc]

With the way so many of the maps are designed (specifically so many doorways and obstacles that block pathing and the lousy AI), I found summoning was usually worse than useless. As you say, the summons hit absolutely nothing so the only use they have is distracting and getting in the way of enemies. Sadly they also get in your way so outside of the rare occasion when you can summon something to tie up an enemy caster, they aren't helpful. The action economy makes it so that full-round summoning in combat is usually a bad idea.

[[TGC] MadGod]

"Base" Summons, meaning just the "monster summoning/natuer's ally I-IX" are (relatively) weak indeed. At least if you use them as a wizard/cleric/druid.

An Inquisitor Monster Tactician with a handful of teamwork feats, augment summoning and superior summoning is an entirely different beast.

Outflank, Precise Strike, tandem trip and suddenly your 1min/level, standard action summons are basically doing your work. You stand in the middle with a longspear or other reach weapon and whistle while you stab with a bane weapon.

Not to mention if you take Animal Domain with boon companion...then you have another companion you can buff.

Especially in solo/2/3-member runs in which you tend to be higher level.

[The Hat]

Elder fire elementals buffed with augmented summoning, ascandent summoning, along with things like the belt of demonic shadow which gives you a free summon, sorcerous reflex and improved initiative, quicken or extend spell to get summons out very fast. This is at the start of act 4. Summons are extremely useful. Then stack with teamwork feats.

I'll admit they are not as useful as repurpose for the lich to take bosses, or just spamming raise undead as chaff, but they are extremely useful to kill things and in the fire elementals case to ignore the many fire spells of the enemy. In fact the elder elementals have ended many bosses for me.

As has been said you can add very tanky pets making them bulwark or deathtouched, along with the nomad background or the necromancer background to give a slight boost to HP.

*I also throw in false life (the grace AOE version) to boost everything up in the middle of fights, and various other buffs like bless. I've actually got gear now which when a character dies, more summons take their place :D

[[TGC] MadGod]

Originally posted by The Hat:

*I also throw in false life (the grace AOE version) to boost everything up in the middle of fights, and various other buffs like bless. I've actually got gear now which when a character dies, more summons take their place :D

This too. Toss in all the teamwork buffs from the MT if you are one and the summons will mow down everything.