Coup de Grace question

[Liero]

what spells can actually allow me to use coup de grace? the animation is when an enemy is down lying on the floor you can do it right? for example i cast grease or slumber i can do CDG, but sometimes cant remember which spell, where enemy is lying on the floor it says i cant cast it since the enemy needs to be helpless. which baffles me since they are helpless and unable to perform any action besides standing up in the next round.

edit: would like to add JustSmile as well for the answer, Helpless is stated in the tooltip which i just found out. silly me i know :d

[JustSmile]

It's all in the tooltip. You can use it on helpless enemies. Helpless does not mean prone.

[mreed2]

No, only sleep and paralysis (such as Hold person / hold monster) allow you to use it. The target must be helpless. Grease shouldn't work, but Slumber does.

If the enemy can stand up next round, they aren't helpless. You need to have them in a state where they can't do that.

[Liero]

Originally posted by JustSmile:

It's all in the tooltip. You can use it on helpless enemies. Helpless does not mean prone.

Ohh......... damn okay just saw the Helpless. so you cant CGD grease got it

[Liero]

Originally posted by mreed2:

No, only sleep and paralysis (such as Hold person / hold monster) allow you to use it. The target must be helpless. Grease shouldn't work, but Slumber does.

If the enemy can stand up next round, they aren't helpless. You need to have them in a state where they can't do that.

ah alright thanks

[Hanby]

I have used it many time for instance when either they were sleeping or being paralyzed, while being prone, they are on the floor but still can get up.

[SIlverblade-T-E]

Prone though still gives a -4 AC penalty vs melee iirc and +4 vs bonus ranged attacks?

Also stops or should stop them making attacks of opportunity unless they have a specific and unusual feat I think?

So, prone is still pretty good AND can allow you to do touch attacks with less risk of harm or miss....the tiedling arcane rogue companion could use Grease BEFORE a fight, stay hidden/invisible, then approach a downed enemy and hit them with Vampiric Touch plus sneak attack damage, lol

(D&D player so not sure of exact differences with Pathfinder)
:)

[Cutlass Jack]

Prone is great because you get opportunity attacks when they get up again. And bonuses and sneak attacks while they're on their face.

[mreed2]

Originally posted by SIlverblade-T-E:

Prone though still gives a -4 AC penalty vs melee iirc and +4 vs bonus ranged attacks?

Also stops or should stop them making attacks of opportunity unless they have a specific and unusual feat I think?

So, prone is still pretty good AND can allow you to do touch attacks with less risk of harm or miss....the tiedling arcane rogue companion could use Grease BEFORE a fight, stay hidden/invisible, then approach a downed enemy and hit them with Vampiric Touch plus sneak attack damage, lol

(D&D player so not sure of exact differences with Pathfinder)
:)

Yeah, all of this is correct. Prone enemies also lose their dex bonus, assuming they have one. Being prone sucks, and spells and abilities that make enemies prone are very powerful.

But it doesn't count as "helpless", so you can't execute them with a CGD,

[Gregorovitch]

To use Coup de Grace effectively you've got to micro the team carefully. If you put an enemy in a state that allows Coup de Grace, such as have Ember Slumber them, then if anybody hits them they wake up and can longer be Coup de Graced. Also Coup de Grace takes a long time to execute.

I find the best approach is to take everybody's AI off and make sure to manually issue attack orders leaving the Slumber victims alone until I've killed all the standing enemies. Then I go round and Coup de Grace the Slumber victims at the end.

An exception to that is when dealing with exceptionally dangerous foes. I sometimes have my MC or Woljif finish them off there and then as soon as Ember Slumbers them to make sure they are good and dead ASAP and don't get up again.

[yuriski1st]

Sleep->Coup de Grace works best in TBM, honestly. You don't have to worry about your guys hitting the guy and you have enough time (usually) to pull it off.

[Tourak]

Originally posted by Eggy:

what spells can actually allow me to use coup de grace? the animation is when an enemy is down lying on the floor you can do it right? for example i cast grease or slumber i can do CDG, but sometimes cant remember which spell, where enemy is lying on the floor it says i cant cast it since the enemy needs to be helpless. which baffles me since they are helpless and unable to perform any action besides standing up in the next round.

Sleep, probably paralysed too.

[Herr Glaube]

One situation that should be added here: Regenerating enemies that have been pounded enough that they're out of the fight. Coup de Grace circumvents the need to find some way to do the correct damage type. Though if you're dealing with large numbers of them (looking at blackwater), having a weapon with that damage type is probably easier.