How metamagic "heightened" works?

[Banana]

I mean, i really have no idea how it works, let say i put "bless" with "heghtened" metamagic feat. on it, will it become from 1 moral attack into 2 moral attack roll?
And whats the point of Heightened metamagic anyway.

[JustSmile]

Heightened magic is for good low level CC spells so that the DC for save rolls is increased since spell level is part of any save.

[Phyroks]

If you cast level 3 spell on enemy it will receive DC for level3, if you heighten it to level 7 it will have level 7 DCs. So its only usefull if you want to cast some low level offensive spell and you already have much higher level spell slots in your book. Theres more to it but you get the idea.

[Naked Granny]

Originally posted by JustSmile:

Heightened magic is for good low level CC spells so that the DC for save rolls is increased since spell level is part of any save.

Yes, though there is also another, subtle, benefit to Heighten: it allows you to prepare spells into another spell level if you want more copies of it per day and you're willing to pay the tax. A good example of this would the Heal spell. Clerics just do not have many interesting SL7 spells to choose from. Why not use those slots on Heal instead? With Heighten, you can.

For arcanes, my recommendations for attractive Heightened spells might be Web, Blindness or Glitterdust, Slow, Bestow Curse (until you get the higher level versions) and Confusion.

For divines, Sound Burst could remain great for a long time because there just aren't many options for instant "everyone in this area is stunned now" crowd control without it being mind-affecting.

[Banana]

Ah, now i got it, so if you make the spell into level 9 after metamagic modifies, it actually works as level 9 magic insteand of original level.
So i guess it doesnt works on any buff or cure magic then,

[Benedicter]

I think in Kingmaker I had heightened stinking cloud in every level on my control sorc

[Blue]

Originally posted by Banana - I been Hacked!:

Ah, now i got it, so if you make the spell into level 9 after metamagic modifies, it actually works as level 9 magic insteand of original level.
So i guess it doesnt works on any buff or cure magic then,

Yes it's basically only useful for those save or die spells, like Phantasmal Killer, Cloud Kill or Wail of the Banshee.

[Arsemoloch]

Stinking cloud was the thinking mans spell, finished kingmaker with vanilla wizard doing metamagics.

[Blue]

Originally posted by Arsemoloch:

Stinking cloud was the thinking mans spell, finished kingmaker with vanilla wizard doing metamagics.

The problem in WotR is that just about everything and their cats are immune to nauseated, so it's not super useful.

[Naked Granny]

Originally posted by Arsemoloch:

Stinking cloud was the thinking mans spell, finished kingmaker with vanilla wizard doing metamagics.

The problem with stinking cloud is that you need communal poison immunity or web to make it work. Two spells instead of one. And in the latter case, it's really just web doing all the work.

Stink won't work well in Wrath because demons are immune to poison, straight up.

[Naked Granny]

Originally posted by Banana - I been Hacked!:

Ah, now i got it, so if you make the spell into level 9 after metamagic modifies, it actually works as level 9 magic insteand of original level.
So i guess it doesnt works on any buff or cure magic then,

Well.... Spell Level affects the saving throw DC that enemies have to make against the spell. The other features of the spell, like how much damage it does or how long it lasts, are calculated from your Caster Level. Which is a different thing.

If you want to use cure spells to harm undead targets, Heightening them will make the save to halve their damage harder for the victim to make.

As another example, if you need to occupy all your spell slots in a given level with core, must-have spells, but in the spell level above that you don't really care about any of the available spells, you could Heighten some of your lower level spells to use those higher level slots instead. Buffs and heals can take advantage of that feature, even if they don't really benefit from having a higher theoretical save DC.

[Naked Granny]

Originally posted by Blue:

Originally posted by Arsemoloch:

Stinking cloud was the thinking mans spell, finished kingmaker with vanilla wizard doing metamagics.

The problem in WotR is that just about everything and their cats are immune to nauseated, so it's not super useful.

I don't think it's nauseated they're directly immune to. It's poison effects. Stinking Cloud is a poison effect (like Cloudkill, for another example). There are other ways to inflict nausea.

[Blue]

Originally posted by Aunt Tony:

Originally posted by Blue:

The problem in WotR is that just about everything and their cats are immune to nauseated, so it's not super useful.

I don't think it's nauseated they're directly immune to. It's poison effects. Stinking Cloud is a poison effect (like Cloudkill, for another example). There are other ways to inflict nausea.

I've been loving phantasmal web, which is a non-poison source of nauseated, but a good 50% of the demons seem to be immune to it anyway. Not the web part at least. Every tough enemy you'd really want it to work on (most of the mythic demons, boss mobs) seem to be immune to it unfortunately.

[Naked Granny]

Originally posted by Blue:

Originally posted by Aunt Tony:

I don't think it's nauseated they're directly immune to. It's poison effects. Stinking Cloud is a poison effect (like Cloudkill, for another example). There are other ways to inflict nausea.

I've been loving phantasmal web, which is a non-poison source of nauseated, but a good 50% of the demons seem to be immune to it anyway. Not the web part at least. Every tough enemy you'd really want it to work on (most of the mythic demons, boss mobs) seem to be immune to it unfortunately.

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...... The Illusion itself might not be tagged with poison, but the spell it's emulating might be. I don't know about that specific edge case. My gut says that the spell it's emulating is still using its original tags.

[Blue]

Originally posted by Aunt Tony:

Originally posted by Blue:

I've been loving phantasmal web, which is a non-poison source of nauseated, but a good 50% of the demons seem to be immune to it anyway. Not the web part at least. Every tough enemy you'd really want it to work on (most of the mythic demons, boss mobs) seem to be immune to it unfortunately.

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...... The Illusion itself might not be tagged with poison, but the spell it's emulating might be. I don't know about that specific edge case. My gut says that the spell it's emulating is still using its original tags.

Phantasmal web is a lvl 5 spell that isn't emulating anything, it's its own thing. It works like a web spell that only targets enemies, but in addition, they need to roll a will save every turn or become nauseated on fail. It's probably one of the strongest spell in the game if you play an Azata with Favorable Magic.

Lately though, I've seen more and more "will save failed, X is immune to nauseated" messages floating above enemy heads on turn start. Some of the mythic demons that you meet, starting from the Ivory Sanctum, are immune.