Kinetic Knight: Str or Dex ?

[Matt [Reckless Boi]]

I'm planning on making a Fire based Kinetic Knight, wearing full plate armor and was wondering if the investemnt in Dex would be worth it, considering that it costs a Feat to make it work with weapons ( Weapon Finesse ).

Wouldn't it be better to just cap Str and use the Feat slot for something else?

[Valandryl]

The problem is that even with the best heavy armour and shield you'll get, your kinetic knight will still be a victim, he'll die very often in melee range because his AC will never be high enough.

[Matt [Reckless Boi]]

Originally posted by Valandryl:

The problem is that even with the best heavy armour and shield you'll get, your kinetic knight will still be a victim, he'll die very often in melee range because his AC will never be high enough.

So stacking Dex and going Medium armor+proficency+dodge would be more helpfull?

[Blue]

I'm not sure why the previous poster told you that heavy armor isn't a good idea, it's perfectly fine (at least up to core difficulty). Since the kinetic blade doesn't get any bonus dmg from STR though, a DEX build is almost certainly a better idea. Just make sure you get at least 14 STR to wear heavy armor unencumbered. You can find/buy mythril full plate fairly early in the game, so getting a decent AC with some DEX is quite possible. With a good shield/armor and using Crane Style, you can expect AC around 50, which is plenty fine. Personally, I'd probably go with a touch blade and tower shield. The -2 penalty to AB for using a tower shield doesn't really matter if you're using touch attacks.

If you stick to elemental blades rather than physical, every melee attack is considered a touch attack, so you'll hit more easily than using a normal weapon. I'd suggest using the Elemental Ascendance mythic feat to bypass resistance/immunity to your chosen element(s). Keep in mind though, that before you get your first mythic level, you might want to use a physical blade (or earth?) or a weapon, because demons are resistant to cold/fire/electricity.

[Matt [Reckless Boi]]

Originally posted by Blue:

I'm not sure why the previous poster told you that heavy armor isn't a good idea, it's perfectly fine (at least up to core difficulty). Since the kinetic blade doesn't get any bonus dmg from STR though, a DEX build is almost certainly a better idea. You can find/buy mythril full plate fairly early in the game, so getting a decent AC with some DEX is quite possible. With a good shield/armor and using Crane Style, you can expect AC around 50, which is plenty fine. Personally, I'd probably go with a touch blade and tower shield.

If you stick to elemental blades rather than physical, every melee attack is considered a touch attack, so you'll hit more easily than using a normal weapon. I'd suggest using the Elemental Ascendance mythic feat to bypass resistance/immunity to your chosen element(s). Keep in mind though, that before you get your first mythic level, you might want to use a physical blade (or earth?) or a weapon, because demons are resistant to cold/fire/electricity.

How many points do I have to invest in monk to get Crane Style? I still don't get why Dex is considered better tho :/

[Blue]

Originally posted by SirOtterius TheOtter:

How many points do I have to invest in monk to get Crane Style? I still don't get why Dex is considered better tho :/

As a kineticist, you probably shouldn't dip into other classes, so no monk dip. Pick the background that gives improved unarmed strike (I think it's veteran?), then you can pick dodge and then the crane style series. You don't need to be a monk. Keep in mind, I think that crane style needs 6 AB, so since kineticist have medium AB growth I think you'll only be able to pick it around level... 8? You don't really need it before then though, because the hard hitting bosses tend to come later than that.

In the meantime, you can pick other feats like weapon focus: blasts. If you're using touch attacks, you might even be able to fight defensively without crane style while keep a decent hit chance, I've never tried a kinetic knight so you'll have to test yourself.

Edit; Also, I play on the Core difficulty, so my advice only applies to core or lower. I'm guessing such a build would also work decently on unfair, but those higher difficulty levels are really punishing of non-perfect builds.

[solthusx]

Originally posted by SirOtterius TheOtter:

Originally posted by Blue:

I'm not sure why the previous poster told you that heavy armor isn't a good idea, it's perfectly fine (at least up to core difficulty). Since the kinetic blade doesn't get any bonus dmg from STR though, a DEX build is almost certainly a better idea. You can find/buy mythril full plate fairly early in the game, so getting a decent AC with some DEX is quite possible. With a good shield/armor and using Crane Style, you can expect AC around 50, which is plenty fine. Personally, I'd probably go with a touch blade and tower shield.

If you stick to elemental blades rather than physical, every melee attack is considered a touch attack, so you'll hit more easily than using a normal weapon. I'd suggest using the Elemental Ascendance mythic feat to bypass resistance/immunity to your chosen element(s). Keep in mind though, that before you get your first mythic level, you might want to use a physical blade (or earth?) or a weapon, because demons are resistant to cold/fire/electricity.

How many points do I have to invest in monk to get Crane Style? I still don't get why Dex is considered better tho :/

Because STR gives less benefits for you. You only get attack bonus and carrying capacity. Whereas at the cost of 1 feat DEX gives bonuses to attack, AC and reflex saves. Remember, CON is what gives damage bonuses for your Kinetic Blade.

[Matt [Reckless Boi]]

Originally posted by Blue:

Originally posted by SirOtterius TheOtter:

How many points do I have to invest in monk to get Crane Style? I still don't get why Dex is considered better tho :/

As a kineticist, you probably shouldn't dip into other classes, so no monk dip. Pick the background that gives improved unarmed strike (I think it's veteran?), then you can pick dodge and then the crane style series. You don't need to be a monk. Keep in mind, I think that crane style needs 6 AB, so since kineticist have medium AB growth I think you'll only be able to pick it around level... 8? You don't really need it before then though, because the hard hitting bosses tend to come later than that.

In the meantime, you can pick other feats like weapon focus: blasts. If you're using touch attacks, you might even be able to fight defensively without crane style while keep a decent hit chance, I've never tried a kinetic knight so you'll have to test yourself.

Edit; Also, I play on the Core difficulty, so my advice only applies to core or lower. I'm guessing such a build would also work decently on unfair, but those higher difficulty levels are really punishing of non-perfect builds.

Thanks for the explaination, I went for a 7/18/20/10/9/7 build and decided for Fire as an element, mostly because i Like a fire weapon over a crap ( earth ) one. Babaus and demons will be a bit of a problem but not so much.

Also, how's Kinetic Knight doing in later stages of the game? I only got myself to the Ivory Sancutum in act 3, and it was a miss fest on Core. Hope that the Touch ac to hit will make it better.

[Matt [Reckless Boi]]

Originally posted by solthusx:

Originally posted by SirOtterius TheOtter:

How many points do I have to invest in monk to get Crane Style? I still don't get why Dex is considered better tho :/

Because STR gives less benefits for you. You only get attack bonus and carrying capacity. Whereas at the cost of 1 feat DEX gives bonuses to attack, AC and reflex saves. Remember, CON is what gives damage bonuses for your Kinetic Blade.

Thanks!! Maxed out dex and con, hopefully i'll make it to the end of act 3 this time.

[Blue]

Originally posted by SirOtterius TheOtter:

Originally posted by solthusx:

Because STR gives less benefits for you. You only get attack bonus and carrying capacity. Whereas at the cost of 1 feat DEX gives bonuses to attack, AC and reflex saves. Remember, CON is what gives damage bonuses for your Kinetic Blade.

Thanks!! Maxed out dex and con, hopefully i'll make it to the end of act 3 this time.

Well, if you really rolled 7 STR, you won't be able to wear armor...

[Matt [Reckless Boi]]

Originally posted by Blue:

Originally posted by SirOtterius TheOtter:

Thanks!! Maxed out dex and con, hopefully i'll make it to the end of act 3 this time.

Well, if you really rolled 7 STR, you won't be able to wear armor...

Oh well belts are there for that :D

[Matt [Reckless Boi]]

Originally posted by Blue:

Originally posted by SirOtterius TheOtter:

Thanks!! Maxed out dex and con, hopefully i'll make it to the end of act 3 this time.

Well, if you really rolled 7 STR, you won't be able to wear armor...

As a side note, how do you increase de damage of the Kinetic Blade?

[Blue]

Originally posted by SirOtterius TheOtter:

Originally posted by Blue:

Well, if you really rolled 7 STR, you won't be able to wear armor...

As a side note, how do you increase de damage of the Kinetic Blade?

It goes up with level, that's why you really don't want to dip with a kineticist. Also, like a previous poster said, it uses your CON for damage bonus (meaning if your CON score is +3, you do +3 extra damage). Ultimately though, the CON bonus isn't all that important and at higher levels, the extra +1 or +2 damage that you get from having extra CON is a minimal fraction of your blast damage. That's why you don't have to go crazy with 20 CON at the start, you could have afforded some STR to wear that armor... Something like 14 STR/18 DEX/18 CON is perfectly fine for a heavy armor kineticist.

[Lord_WC]

Why do you want to go a kinetic knight? It doesn't get anything worthwhile and sacrifices everything that makes kineticist good.

[Matt [Reckless Boi]]

Originally posted by Blue:

Originally posted by SirOtterius TheOtter:

As a side note, how do you increase de damage of the Kinetic Blade?

It goes up with level, that's why you really don't want to dip with a kineticist. Also, like a previous poster said, it uses your CON for damage bonus (meaning if your CON score is +3, you do +3 extra damage). Ultimately though, the CON bonus isn't all that important and at higher levels, the extra +1 or +2 damage that you get from having extra CON is a minimal fraction of your blast damage. That's why you don't have to go crazy with 20 CON at the start, you could have afforded some STR to wear that armor... Something like 14 STR/18 DEX/18 CON is perfectly fine for a heavy armor kineticist.

yes I figured that out, in the end went for 10/18/16/14/10/10. 14 in int mostly for flavour and having more skill points :D

[Matt [Reckless Boi]]

Originally posted by Lord_WC:

Why do you want to go a kinetic knight? It doesn't get anything worthwhile and sacrifices everything that makes kineticist good.

Mostly, because I prefer Melee over Range for my MC, then because act 3 has been a miss fest for my melee builds, even when fully buffed, and was wondering if having to deal with touch AC would make things less of a chore.