Use Magic Device question

[Cleftin Twain]

How high would be normal to pump up this skill for different classes? I've never actually used it so I have no idea of its usefulness.

[アンジェル]

Originally posted by Bad Player AI:

How high would be normal to pump up this skill for different classes? I've never actually used it so I have no idea of its usefulness.

When you try using e.g. a wizard wand with someone who is not a wizard, you see a difficulty check (DC) number at the top of the item's description.

You want your skills to make it as easy as possible to make a successful check of that number.

[Naked Granny]

Just for reference, the UMD skill check DC for a scroll is 20 + caster level of the scroll. A wand should just be DC 20 for all wands, though I haven't checked. I also haven't checked whether you can equip items that are alignment / class restricted the way you can in tabletop, but being able to bypass equipment restrictions might be a powerful tool (there's a powerful bastard sword laying around early in Act 2...)

It's not particularly difficult to get there. 4 or 5 from charisma, 1 rank, 3 class skill, 3 from skill focus, +1 more if you have a background trait or something. That'll start the game with +10 to +12 on your check. Pick up Deft Hands or whatever other bonus feat you find laying around. You aren't likely to want to burn expensive high level scrolls in Act 1 or Act 2 (if you even find any, though the vendors sell *gobs and gobs* of them), but you will have more scrolls than you ever realistically use.

UMD is mostly useful for non-casters to be able to buff themselves for cheap (scrolls are half the price of potions and can hold spells higher than spell level 3), but never underestimate the power of a timely scroll of Heal.

A major exception here is the Scroll Scholar wizard archetype. They eventually (class level 10) get a feature that allows them to cast spells from scrolls using their own caster level instead of the scroll's if their own caster level is higher! This is absolutely bonkers because the price of a scroll is 25g x caster level x spell level. And that archetype also gives the wizard the ability to use their own spell DC instead of the scroll's. Basically all that together means a Scroll Scholar (Nenio...) has as many spell slots as she has scrolls to cast from because scrolls function just like her own spells do.

And you're gonna end up with more than a million in spare cash during most runs. Plenty of money to splurge on important scrolls.

[Cleftin Twain]

So is UMD not that great for spell casters outside of Scroll Scholar then? Just curious why it's made a class skill for those classes typically.

Also based on what you guys are saying, you don't really need to put a lot of points into it either then? I don't know if I want to use feats on it but skill points seem kinda meh to me so I'm happy throwing them into it.

[アンジェル]

Originally posted by Bad Player AI:

So is UMD not that great for spell casters outside of Scroll Scholar then? Just curious why it's made a class skill for those classes typically.

Also based on what you guys are saying, you don't really need to put a lot of points into it either then? I don't know if I want to use feats on it but skill points seem kinda meh to me so I'm happy throwing them into it.

That conclusion I think is correct. Once you are sure you will not need a higher number to success a check by default, you can stop putting points into it and carry on. So far I remember only seeing persuasion/intimidation to have checks difficulty with above 30.

[Cleftin Twain]

Originally posted by アンジェル:

Originally posted by Bad Player AI:

So is UMD not that great for spell casters outside of Scroll Scholar then? Just curious why it's made a class skill for those classes typically.

Also based on what you guys are saying, you don't really need to put a lot of points into it either then? I don't know if I want to use feats on it but skill points seem kinda meh to me so I'm happy throwing them into it.

That conclusion I think is correct. Once you are sure you will not need a higher number to success a check by default, you can stop putting points into it and carry on. So far I remember only seeing persuasion/intimidation to have checks difficulty with above 30.

Awesome, thank you. I would have just kept pumping points into it for no benefit.

[Gorilla]

What kind of DC would a divine caster need to beat to use a level 1 arcane scroll (Mage Armor for example)?

Edit: Just did a test in-game with 1 UMD rank. It rolled 30 (10 + 20 modifier) for a check of 21. I have no idea where the 20 modifier came from.

Also, does (Greater) Enduring Spell work with scrolls / potions?