Sneak attack not working on spells

[Soldarc]

So i made an arcane trickster and sneak attack does not work on Ray of frost, Acid Splash or Scorching ray? is this a bug or intended? I mean i thought it worked on all attack spells where you roll to hit or do i have to wait untill im level 10 Arcane trickster for it to work on any spell?

EDIT: Reinstalled the game and now it works.

[Morgian]

You get sneak attack to damage spells in level 10, if I read the class description right. And only if they are flatfooted.

[T.W. Hamill]

Not flatfooted, but exactly the same as any ranged sneak attack. You pretty much have to be standing behind them or opening up with the spell. And yeah, its level 10 Arcane Trickster before your spells can sneak attack. Its really not that great.

[Frozen Dervish]

It works on touch attacks till lvl 10. At lvl 10 it applies to all spells that deal damage. If you aren't getting sneak attacks they aren't being flanked or flat-footed. To get them to be flanked you need at least 2 melee on the enemy.

[Mephisto]

Originally posted by Frozen Dervish:

To get them to be flanked you need at least 2 melee on the enemy.

Or, what is much easier for a mage, just cast greater invisibility and then every enemy is flatfooted

[Soldarc]

Originally posted by Frozen Dervish:

It works on touch attacks till lvl 10. At lvl 10 it applies to all spells that deal damage. If you aren't getting sneak attacks they aren't being flanked or flat-footed. To get them to be flanked you need at least 2 melee on the enemy.

I tried placing 5 characters around a monster and then used Ray of frost, Acid Splash and Scorching ray on it. no sneak attack damage. Then i shot it with my Rogue and he got the sneak attack damage... So only with the spells its not working :(

[Soldarc]

I know how sneak attack works.. i have sneak attack on 3 of my characters in the party and only character it is not working on is the arcane trickster with the spells.

[Morgian]

I read it again and there is still no mention in the class description saying you get sneak attack damage with spells before level 10.

[T.W. Hamill]

Because they arent touch spells.

They are ranged touch spells. Youd need to be using ACTUAL touch spells. Until Trickster level 10.

[Soldarc]

Originally posted by Morgian:

I read it again and there is still no mention in the class description saying you get sneak attack damage with spells before level 10.

It worked in Kingmaker and it works in the pen and paper game. The lvl 10 ability makes it work on all damage spells, even those you dont roll to hit.. like Fireball and Magic Missile.

[Mephisto]

Originally posted by Soldarc:

I know how sneak attack works.. i have sneak attack on 3 of my characters in the party and only character it is not working on is the arcane trickster with the spells.

My mc is arcanist arcana trickster and sneak attacks work perfectly with all spells including those mentioned in first post. Moreover I could sneak attack with cantrips and rays even before I became AT and when just took vivisectionist subclass and accomplished sneak attacks feat

[Soldarc]

Originally posted by T.W. Hamill:

Because they arent touch spells.

They are ranged touch spells. Youd need to be using ACTUAL touch spells. Until Trickster level 10.

Are you for real?? this is not how it has worked in any itiation of pathfinder ever before... Why did they chage the rules?? The whole point of Arcane Trickster is to sneak attack with your rays...

[The Silver Santana]

Originally posted by Mephisto:

Originally posted by Frozen Dervish:

To get them to be flanked you need at least 2 melee on the enemy.

Or, what is much easier for a mage, just cast greater invisible and then every enemy is flatfooted

That's a bingo!

Other methods include the shatter defenses line, which makes enemies flat-footed when shaken and which you can trigger off of bard songs (dirge of doom) or spells, or winning initiative/attacking at the edge of visual range to trigger combat.

A low level eldritch scoundrel rogue will get great millage out of snowball, shocking grasp, and scorching ray, before iterative attacks kick in and he'd be better served by using weapons. Even then, flat-footed touch AC is a great shorthand way of saving "0 AC", as most enemies don't have any AC bonuses that work against touch (no shield, armor, or natural armor) and flat-footed (no dex or dodge bonuses).

As flat-footed touch AC can't add any of those bonuses, that only adds deflection, sacred/profane, insight, and luck bonuses, which are almost exclusively granted by spells and class features that are typically very rare. Then, of course, it subtracts stuff like the size modifier, which is actually quite significant at bigger sizes.

It's not uncommon to see a flat-footed touch AC of 5 or less on a creature with 40+ normal AC. Given that even a wizard has a +4 to hit by level 8, and it's basically impossible to miss a flat-footed touch AC attack. Specializing in them makes you a passable dragonslayer.

[Cutlass Jack]

In Kingmaker it worked just fine with ranged touch spells. I had Octavia using her ranged cantrips as a sneak attack delivery system the whole game. So not sure why its not working for you here.

[Soldarc]

Originally posted by Mephisto:

Originally posted by Soldarc:

I know how sneak attack works.. i have sneak attack on 3 of my characters in the party and only character it is not working on is the arcane trickster with the spells.

My mc is arcanist arcana trickster and sneak attacks work perfectly with all spells including mentioned in first post. Morover I could sneak attack with cantrips and rays even before I became AT and when just took vivisictionist subclass and accomplished sneak attacks feat

Then my Ember is bugged =/ Made her my arcane trickster.

[The Silver Santana]

Originally posted by Soldarc:

Originally posted by T.W. Hamill:

Because they arent touch spells.

They are ranged touch spells. Youd need to be using ACTUAL touch spells. Until Trickster level 10.

Are you for real?? this is not how it has worked in any itiation of pathfinder ever before... Why did they chage the rules?? The whole point of Arcane Trickster is to sneak attack with your rays...

I can 100% confirm that he's wrong. It works with ranged touch spells. Anything with an attack roll, really.

Edit: to check, make sure that A. Character has sneak attack, B. That the enemy is considered flat-footed, and C. Double check by taking a regular Rogue along and having him sneak attack the enemy. You can see flat-footed by starting combat in turn-based mode and seeing the red dagger looking icon in their portrait.

Then bug report that ♥♥♥♥.