Can't wait to see what awful minigame will ruin the next Pathfinder -game

[ÄmJii]

I'm taking a wild guess and go with poor man's Microsoft Flight Simulator.
"After every 24 hour, you have to successfully roll vs DC or your PC dies in a plane-crash".

[ÄmJii]

Publicado originalmente por SnuffSaid:

Having a "stronghold" or "base" has been in many RPGs, even Baldur's Gate. Having an entire kingdom was the logical next step. It just wasn't handled particularly well. Now it appears the kingdom management has been thinned out even more to make room for the equally thin crusade. I guess they thought they could pull this off because some of their team worked on Heroes Of Might and Magic, but this juggling act doesn't really work in it's current state. I'm not against the concept at all but the execution is just, meh.

For the record, BG 2's strongholds were completely optional. You could even turn down the stronghold offer entirely if you wanted, strongholds merely added few low-impact sidequests and some nice magical items you wouldn't otherwise get (such as idols that summoned a creature 1/day).

Neverwinter Nights 2 had Crossroad Keep (https://nwn2.fandom.com/wiki/Crossroad_Keep) which, while not perfect, wasn't exactly snuffing the fun out of the game either. IIRC you could mostly ignore it if you wanted and still beat the game just fine.

So yes, other cRPGs have had "stronghold" or "base" well before Pathfinder, but they all fell under category "optional but cool". Meanwhile, Pathfinder's kingdom/crusade management is more like "neck-deep feces you have to wade through". Big difference.

[Mr Fred]

Anyone with half a brain will be able to tell you about it as soon as they say which module they are doing next... because you know its following premade module and you can already tell in advance...

Its kinda cute seeing all these people that shouldnt even be playing the game being filtered by such an easy system that is mainly only there to softlock certain areas of the game while you are not strong enough to go there. Of course instant gratification gamers ignore that with cheats and then whine some more about the difficulties, its like poetry.

[Procrastinating Gamer]

Assuming they continue adapting existing Adventure Paths, here are the ones that had a gimmick mechanic akin to how Kingmaker brought kingdom building mechanics to Pathfinder and WotR brought the Mythic Rules and elements of crusade management. This is only semi-complete as there are a few I'm unfamiliar with. Not every AP had such mechanics so most of the ones I leave off the list just don't have them.

1st Edition APs:

• Rise of the Runelords - Building up a keep.
  
• Jade Regent - Caravan management as the party travels from Varisia, across the north pole, then down into the continent of Tian Xia, ultimately arriving at the nation of Minkai.
  
• Skull & Shackles - Ship management, this was the pirate adventure path.
  
• Reign of Winter - Technically operating Baba Yaga's hut, but that was more just a quick adventure in its winding halls before firing it up. Seriously, the thing was like a TARDIS with the time travel bits yanked out.
  
• Hell's Rebels - Possibly some form of managing the rebellion against House Thrune.
  
• Strange Aeons - Sanity mechanics, because why do a Lovecraft campaign without such a thing?
  
• Ironfang Invasion - A lot of wilderness survival and guerrilla warfare.
  
• War for the Crown - Building up a county in Taldor while working behind-the-scenes to support one side of a civil war.

2nd Edition APs:

• Age of Ashes - Restoring a keep in downtime between adventures.
  
• Extinction Curse - Managing a travelling circus.
  
• Agents of Edgewatch - Working as law enforcement in Absalom (not managing stuff, but does emphasise de-escalation and such)
  
• Fists of the Ruby Phoenix - Competing in a semi-structured fighting tournament (not managing anything but about two thirds of it will be spent working within the tournament's structure)
  
• Strength of Thousands - Working within the academic structure of the Magaambya (there's timeskips so you aren't spending months roleplaying through just one semester).

That's the APs that are out so far - Strength of Thousands is the one in the process of being released at the moment.

[Crimeodile]

Publicado originalmente por Procrastinating Gamer:

Assuming they continue adapting existing Adventure Paths, here are the ones that had a gimmick mechanic akin to how Kingmaker brought kingdom building mechanics to Pathfinder and WotR brought the Mythic Rules and elements of crusade management. This is only semi-complete as there are a few I'm unfamiliar with. Not every AP had such mechanics so most of the ones I leave off the list just don't have them.

1st Edition APs:

• Rise of the Runelords - Building up a keep.
  
• Jade Regent - Caravan management as the party travels from Varisia, across the north pole, then down into the continent of Tian Xia, ultimately arriving at the nation of Minkai.
  
• Skull & Shackles - Ship management, this was the pirate adventure path.
  
• Reign of Winter - Technically operating Baba Yaga's hut, but that was more just a quick adventure in its winding halls before firing it up. Seriously, the thing was like a TARDIS with the time travel bits yanked out.
  
• Hell's Rebels - Possibly some form of managing the rebellion against House Thrune.
  
• Strange Aeons - Sanity mechanics, because why do a Lovecraft campaign without such a thing?
  
• Ironfang Invasion - A lot of wilderness survival and guerrilla warfare.
  
• War for the Crown - Building up a county in Taldor while working behind-the-scenes to support one side of a civil war.

2nd Edition APs:

• Age of Ashes - Restoring a keep in downtime between adventures.
  
• Extinction Curse - Managing a travelling circus.
  
• Agents of Edgewatch - Working as law enforcement in Absalom (not managing stuff, but does emphasise de-escalation and such)
  
• Fists of the Ruby Phoenix - Competing in a semi-structured fighting tournament (not managing anything but about two thirds of it will be spent working within the tournament's structure)
  
• Strength of Thousands - Working within the academic structure of the Magaambya (there's timeskips so you aren't spending months roleplaying through just one semester).

That's the APs that are out so far - Strength of Thousands is the one in the process of being released at the moment.

I'm glad that somebody gets it. Both Wrath and Kingmaker are based on adventure paths. Not just pure pathfinder but premade adventures that have themes and usually some extra stuff that individuals may or may not enjoy. I think fans of those paths would be more disappointed if owlcat didn't try to capture the gimmicks too.

[Zechnophobe]

Publicado originalmente por ÄmJii:

Publicado originalmente por SnuffSaid:

So yes, other cRPGs have had "stronghold" or "base" well before Pathfinder, but they all fell under category "optional but cool". Meanwhile, Pathfinder's kingdom/crusade management is more like "neck-deep feces you have to wade through". Big difference.

Doesn't help that the introduction to the Kingdom mode in the first game hugely disrailed the flow of the game. Like, you kill a main bad guy, and suddenly the entire game just goes on pause while you figure out some completely unrelated system.

[Zechnophobe]

Publicado originalmente por BrutHammer:

Man, you are racist

Can't figure out who this comment was pointed at, or why.

[Something completely different]

Publicado originalmente por Mail me to the Moon:

Publicado originalmente por NihilVerum:

As far as I know the whole Crusade thing was in the Adventure Path as well. It's not entirely their fault.

No, but a clever designer can work around that.

Look at larian. Are they just adapting DnD mechanics 1-1? Nooooope.

And does that work perfectly? Nooooooooope. Reaction mechanics are terribly wonky in BG3.

[RocketMan]

Publicado originalmente por NihilVerum:

Publicado originalmente por Mail me to the Moon:

Look at larian. Are they just adapting DnD mechanics 1-1? Nooooope.

That's more because they consistently fail to grasp those mechanics than anything else though. Larian are the First Time DMs to Owlcats That Guy DM.

Nope, hell pretty sure they've even made tons of posts about intentional decisions to speed up gameplay and the like.

They're also working closely with WoTC. Gameplay is fun, there's a reason why it sold so many copies, many more than their previous title D:os2. Hell, compare it to the more faithful solasta, and god. Why. Solasta really sucked because of how faithful it was.

And they're listening to feedback. Larian loves their environmental effects, but they all but removed them over complaints of it not being faithful enough to the source material.