Ideal build/class for a Lich?

[The entire freaking Soviet Union]

Tried making an overwhelming spellcaster and a blight druid, both (atleast by gray garison) feel underpowered and honestly, they barely even participated in battles outside of the occasional spell that actually hit-- my companions were carrying me through on normal.

When I got this my main interest was the Mythic paths and how they'd change the game up compared to something like divinity 2, my first "goal" is to hit mythic 3 lich.

Any advice in regards to making spellcasters/summoners/evil characters to someone relatively new to the pathfinder series?

[Batailleuse]

lol grey garison is not exactly a point reference to know if a character is good... thats like tutorial area literally.

Lich works best for a few archetype

1- anything that is a pure arcane caster (wizard/sorcerer etc) because you can combine your lich and caster spell book, meaning you are much much higher caster level than wthout and lich has some pretty good spells.

2- any martial melee class such as warrior/slayer because you can drain hp while fighting

3- if you use pet combining mythic pets + mythic undead aura = strong pet

4- kineticist - lich has a special upgrade for kineticist taht adds 1d6/mythic on your blast skill

you can of course use lich with anyone but she synergize best with those (imo)

[Bard]

Also worth noting that at the moment, lich path is bugged and can't finish the game.

[Mechalibur]

Most casters are pretty bad in Act 1 - it doesn't necessarily mean the build won't work later on.

[The entire freaking Soviet Union]

Originally posted by Batailleuse:

lol grey garison is not exactly a point reference to know if a character is good... thats like tutorial area literally.

Thanks for the advice but in context I'm a strategy game player-- I've got countless hours in games like Xcom, stellaris, endless ledgends, age of wonders..
Played Divinity 2 about 2 years ago, my first introduction to the RPG/strategy mix.. but its still all turn based and gives you non-dnd numbers.

I personally think the 7 hour mark is more than enough to atleast have some idea if what you're doing is going to work or not.

Then again, I have been building my main characters to have absolutely no melee/ranged attack and was simply relying on spells. found having to micro manage my character in real time simply wasnt worth the damage/support output.

Honestly, I'm hoping if i can learn this game well enough and tolerate what I'm told is a painfully lengthy crusade, I could comfortably play Baldurs Gate 3 with friends without issue whenever it gets out of ea. heard good things about the first game.

[Mechalibur]

Originally posted by The entire freaking Soviet Union:

Thanks for the advice but in context I'm a strategy game player-- I've got countless hours in games like Xcom, stellaris, endless ledgends, age of wonders..
Played Divinity 2 about 2 years ago, my first introduction to the RPG/strategy mix.. but its still all turn based and gives you non-dnd numbers.

I personally think the 7 hour mark is more than enough to atleast have some idea if what you're doing is going to work or not.

In those games, perhaps. This one's a little different.

Pathfinder's spellcasters gain their power exponentially as they level up. In addition to getting more spells per day, the spells they get become stronger and stronger. This is compounded by the fact that getting mythic powers (at the end of act 1), immediately lets you overcome one of the biggest issues casters face: energy resistance. There's a pretty significant power spike for most casters that isn't evident in the first act.

[Mikeavelli]

Originally posted by Bard:

Also worth noting that at the moment, lich path is bugged and can't finish the game.

Is this just the crusade stuff, or is there more?

[Mordred Morghul]

Originally posted by The entire freaking Soviet Union:

Originally posted by Batailleuse:

lol grey garison is not exactly a point reference to know if a character is good... thats like tutorial area literally.

Thanks for the advice but in context I'm a strategy game player-- I've got countless hours in games like Xcom, stellaris, endless ledgends, age of wonders..
Played Divinity 2 about 2 years ago, my first introduction to the RPG/strategy mix.. but its still all turn based and gives you non-dnd numbers.

I personally think the 7 hour mark is more than enough to atleast have some idea if what you're doing is going to work or not.

Then again, I have been building my main characters to have absolutely no melee/ranged attack and was simply relying on spells. found having to micro manage my character in real time simply wasnt worth the damage/support output.

Honestly, I'm hoping if i can learn this game well enough and tolerate what I'm told is a painfully lengthy crusade, I could comfortably play Baldurs Gate 3 with friends without issue whenever it gets out of ea. heard good things about the first game.

First, as a spellcaster you are not going to be doing damage until you've learned your level 3-4 spells. Just sit back, buff the group and/or debuff the enemies. That is your low level job.

After you've got to your level 3-4 spells you need to decide are you going to bother with ray spells, as in anything that requires ranged touch attacks. These can be very powerful as a lot of tanky enemies with 34-38 AC have really low touch AC. If you want ray attacks you need point blank shot and precise shot feats. Regardless of if you use rays or not, you need spell penetration, greater spell penetration, and possibly even mythic spell penetration. The metamagic Bolster is also really good to add some AoE to your powerful single target damage spells. Selective spell will save your allies from your AoEs.

As a warning lich is broken for everyone as far as I know. At max rank, you only get your cosmetic transformation (if that). You do not get any of the benefits like becoming undead, but you still get the downsides of the lich, you take a big stat penalty. Iich is also tied to the broken crusade mode. I'd wait to do lich until the issues are patched.

[Mechalibur]

Originally posted by Mikeavelli:

Originally posted by Bard:

Also worth noting that at the moment, lich path is bugged and can't finish the game.

Is this just the crusade stuff, or is there more?

I've heard the transformation doesn't fully work and gives you a bunch of penalties with no advantages :/

[Mordred Morghul]

Originally posted by Mikeavelli:

Originally posted by Bard:

Also worth noting that at the moment, lich path is bugged and can't finish the game.

Is this just the crusade stuff, or is there more?

Na, you can beat the game as lich i think. There are several bugs that do not happen to everyone that brick their saves. There are levels that you can get stuck in. Like the exit is not there and no reloading fixes it. You can reload like 5 hours prior and as soon as you get back to that location, you're stuck again. One of the lich places, I believe, has this potential issue. Azata does too.

[AzureTheGamerKobold]

casters pretty much suck until mid to late game when they become unstoppable forces of destruction. Any caster will probably word, it's all in how you build it BUT i do think Charisma based casters will benefit more--- it depends on if the lich path actually converts you to undead or not. If you actually count as undead then con goes away entirely and charisma replaces it making charisma casters better. But i haven't got that far and i just found out exploiter wizard isn't counting for the spell book merge.

[Selvokaz]

Oracle Oracle Oracle Oracle Oracle, did I mention Oracle?
Archetype Enlightened Philosopher

Background: Healer

ideal Race: Dhampir (Moroi Born) or Half Elf (Kindred Raised)

Stat Break Down:
If Half Elf 14 Strength, 10 Dex, 14 Con, 14 Int, 10 Wis, 20 Cha
if Moroi Born its Str 14, Dex 10, Con 12, Int 14, Wis 10, Cha 19

Skills to put points into: All the Knowledge and Lore Skills and Persuasion (Religion, World, Nature and Persuasion at the first 4 skills to focus on, when you start getting 5 or more skill points then focus on Arcana and whatever else you like).

Oracle Curse: Powerless Prophecy

Additional Spells: INFLICT SPELLS!

Mystery: Bones!!!!!

Revelations: All of them, start with Bone Armor, (if you're a dhampr, resist life isn't great at first but it gets better as you gain levels so take it last or at 7th lv)

Feats: Combat Casting, Skill Focus Persuasion, Spell Focus Necromancy, G Spell Focus Necromancy, if you're a half elf Elven Spirit otherwise Spell Penetration, Bolster Metamagic, Greater Spell Penetration, if Dhampir Blood Drinker, Warrior Priest, and Toughness are all good feats for you, next

Spells obvious grab all the necromancy spells, and flavor it with other types of spells as you see fit, at first lv i would say grab doom and bless.

next grab a single lv dip into Scaled Fist monk, then back to Oracle for the rest of the game.. you're done sir, grab that lich path and embrace the undead life style.. by the by Bone Armor doesn't interfer with the monks unarmed AC bonus or Cha to AC.

[myhv]

Casters suck pretty badly early on, especially when it comes to damage. Most early damaging spells (barring the odd AoE one) are touch attacks, meaning that you need bonuses to hit and "archer" feats to actually land them, especially against big baddies, or when attacking in to melee. So you mostly spam buffs and things like grease/web/entangle early on. You basically have no decent damage spells until you unlock level 3 spells, which is lvl 6 for most casters.

[Mordred Morghul]

Originally posted by AzureTheGamerKobold:

casters pretty much suck until mid to late game when they become unstoppable forces of destruction. Any caster will probably word, it's all in how you build it BUT i do think Charisma based casters will benefit more--- it depends on if the lich path actually converts you to undead or not. If you actually count as undead then con goes away entirely and charisma replaces it making charisma casters better. But i haven't got that far and i just found out exploiter wizard isn't counting for the spell book merge.

It is supposed to work that way but it is bugged. You just take a huge hit to your stats and gain none of the promised benefits.

[Selvokaz]

Originally posted by myhv:

Casters suck pretty badly early on, especially when it comes to damage. Also most early damaging spells (barring the odd AoE one) are touch attacks, meaning that you need bonuses to hit and "archer" feats to actually land them, especially against big baddies, or when attacking in to melee. So you mostly spam buffs and things like grease/web/entangle early on. You basically have no decent damage spells until you unlock level 3 spells, which is lvl 6 for most casters.

This exactly why i suggest oracle, or Cleric because they get Medium BAB and can wear medium armor and usually carry decent weapon selections, if you're a cleric and worship Urgathoa you get a nice Scythe and now you got your grim reaper vibes going. XD

[Sashenka]

But he won't be able to merge spellbook with Lich. My witch was doing mostlybnothing up until Drezen, simply casting the incredibly useful hexes but nothing more. Grey Garrison is too soon for casters, no matter the build.

Also, OP, play the original BG and Icewind Dale with your buddies. It is still good fun.