Snap Shot and Outflank

[Draken]

I have a question about the interaction of the [Outflank] and [Snap Shot] feats.
[Outflank] only works if you can threaten.
Ranged weapons can't threaten, so they don't work with [Outflank].
But [Snap Shot] allows ranged weapons to threaten.
So can a ranged weapon with [Snap Shot] trigger [Outflank]?

[Morgian]

It should, but I haven't yet gotten to add it to Llann as the other archer feats are way more important.

[Pandasaur]

Most likely, no, because Outflank is intended to be used in melee. Look at the description tags of Outflank in the description. If you see Melee, and not Ranged, then your answer is probably no.

[Draken]

Just tested it and no, it doesn't seem to work.
Which is really a shame. From how the feats are described it should work and it would have made sense too.

[[TGC] MadGod]

You can only threaten squares in which you can melee attack into.

That rules out ranged attacks.

Quote SRD:
"When making a melee attack, you get a +2 flanking bonus if your opponent is threatened by another enemy character or creature on its opposite border or opposite corner."

Even if we ignore "melee attack", we cannot ignore "threatened":

"You threaten all squares into which you can make a melee attack, even when it is not your turn. Generally, that means everything in all squares adjacent to your space (including diagonally). An enemy that takes certain actions while in a threatened square provokes an attack of opportunity from you. If you’re unarmed, you don’t normally threaten any squares and thus can’t make attacks of opportunity."

[Tourak]

Originally posted by TGC von Anrantz:

You can only threaten squares in which you can melee attack into.

That rules out ranged attacks.

Quote SRD:
"When making a melee attack, you get a +2 flanking bonus if your opponent is threatened by another enemy character or creature on its opposite border or opposite corner."

Even if we ignore "melee attack", we cannot ignore "threatened":

"You threaten all squares into which you can make a melee attack, even when it is not your turn. Generally, that means everything in all squares adjacent to your space (including diagonally). An enemy that takes certain actions while in a threatened square provokes an attack of opportunity from you. If you’re unarmed, you don’t normally threaten any squares and thus can’t make attacks of opportunity."

Snap shot: With a ranged weapon, you can take advantage of any opening in your opponent’s defenses.

Prerequisite: Dex 13, Point-Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Weapon Focus, base attack bonus +6.

Benefit: While wielding a ranged weapon with which you have Weapon Focus, you threaten squares within 5 feet of you. You can make attacks of opportunity with that ranged weapon. You do not provoke attacks of opportunity when making a ranged attack as an attack of opportunity.

[Draken]

Edit: From the ingame description:

Snap Shot:
"While wielding a ranged weapon, you threaten squares within your melee reach. You can make attacks of opportunity with that ranged weapon. You do not provoke attacks of opportunity when making a ranged attack as attack of opportunity."

Edit2: So I'm regarding that non interaction as a bug and going to report it. :)

[[TGC] MadGod]

Originally posted by Draken:

Edit: From the ingame description:

Snap Shot:
"While wielding a ranged weapon, you threaten squares within your melee reach. You can make attacks of opportunity with that ranged weapon. You do not provoke attacks of opportunity when making a ranged attack as attack of opportunity."

Still you cannot flank. :)

"When making a melee attack, you get a +2 flanking bonus if your opponent is threatened by another enemy character or creature on its opposite border or opposite corner."

You can make AoOs tho.

[Draken]

Right, the flanking keyword is missing....
This really sucks. :(

[Enemyz]

be happy that bow can sneak attack.

[[TGC] MadGod]

Originally posted by Draken:

Right, the flanking keyword is missing....
This really sucks. :(

The keyword is "melee attack" in the wording of the flanking rule. It basically forbids flanking with ranged weapons.

Only way out would be a feat or item that says, "This weapon is considered a melee weapon for flanking purposes." :)

[Spoo]

Flanking rules by definition require a melee weapon.

[Elizabello]

But if your ranged member has outflank and crits - your melee members that are flanking will make an attack of ooportunity so still nice to have it on ranged.

[belangf]

Originally posted by Spoo:

Flanking rules by definition require a melee weapon.

The outflank rule is: When making a melee attack, you get a +2 flanking bonus if your opponent is threatened by another enemy character.

Snap Shot says you threaten adjacent squares with a ranged weapon. Flanking says the attacker must be melee, but the target just needs to be threatened by someone else (does not specify if melee).

With snap shot you threaten and do not provoke attacks of opportunity so I would say it is effectively like a melee weapon for the sake of the argument. The enemy is distracted by you just as a melee attacker.

My interpretation: the ranged character would not trigger outflank for himself when attacking the adjacent flanked enemy, but he would provide outflank for a melee companion.

[beagels01]

I don't know if the descriptions have changed or if people confuse the pnp game with the PC game, doesn't matter. Right now the flanking rule in Wrath of the Righteous clearly says that the other one has to only threaten. And the part about making a melee attack is either a false description or the game is bugged, since people flank even if they're not making an attack (Otherwise Outflank wouldn't work ever). Furthermore Seize the Moment which works with ranged doesn't have the ranged tag, while Outflank has it.
Either the descriptions are wrong or the game is bugged. That's a fact.

[anfindel13]

Don't forget though, their are various pieces of gear that a ranged character can use that will provide the archer attacks of opportunity when melee get their Outflank aoo on targets.