Alignment shift? Wth?

[EvilDonut]

So, i am lawful good. I almost always picked GOOD dialogue choices.
I shifted towards neutral good. Wtf?

[Silamon]

It seems choosing only lawful does not just move you towards lawful neutral. The only thing I can think of is that there is a second alignment in the options that the game just doesn't tell you.

I rerolled my character a while ago. It reset my position to dead center lawful good and wiped all previous alignment choices. Every choice I made since has been lawful.

Somehow I actually moved closer to neutral good. I'm not entirely sure how exactly that would be possible. Unless it starts adding previous choices to the character as well, but then most of my choices before the reset were lawful as well.

Edit:
http://prntscr.com/1rn0c1p

[Marcos_DS]

Originally posted by EvilDonut:

Originally posted by Marcos_DS:

If you only pick good options and not lawful ones, why should you be considered lawful & good (=lawful good) instead of just good (=neutral good).

Because that's how it is in the ruleset.

Nope its not in the ruleset, the point system is an implementation of the pathfinder alignment system which are just guidelines really - changing player alignment is normally up to the DM.

As a DM, If you are always acting good, you trend towards neutral good. Have a few lawful choices mixed in and lawful good still makes sense. But if you are never acting lawful, you are not lawful, simple as that.

[Tourak]

Originally posted by Silamon:

It seems choosing only lawful does not just move you towards lawful neutral. The only thing I can think of is that there is a second alignment in the options that the game just doesn't tell you.

I rerolled my character a while ago. It reset my position to dead center lawful good and wiped all previous alignment choices. Every choice I made since has been lawful.

Somehow I actually moved closer to neutral good. I'm not entirely sure how exactly that would be possible. Unless it starts adding previous choices to the character as well, but then most of my choices before the reset were lawful as well.

Edit:
http://prntscr.com/1rn0c1p

To me, its seem you are indeed moving toward LG, not NG although, since you are also low on the Good scale, with only Lawful choice you're getting pretty close to LN.

[Silamon]

Originally posted by Tourak:

Originally posted by Silamon:

To me, its seem you are indeed moving toward LG, not NG although, since you are also low on the Good scale, with only Lawful choice you're getting pretty close to LN.

If I were moving towards lawful neutral with pure lawful choices, wouldnt the dot have moved towards the left (lawful) and not towards the right (neutral good)? It looks like it is being pulled towards Neutral good/true neutral rather than lawful neutral to me. Maybe I am just reading it wrong? It never looked so strange to me in kingmaker though.

[Tourak]

Originally posted by Silamon:

Originally posted by Tourak:

To me, its seem you are indeed moving toward LG, not NG although, since you are also low on the Good scale, with only Lawful choice you're getting pretty close to LN.

If I were moving towards lawful neutral with pure lawful choices, wouldnt the dot have moved towards the left (lawful) and not towards the right (neutral good)? It looks like it is being pulled towards Neutral good/true neutral rather than lawful neutral to me. Maybe I am just reading it wrong? It never looked so strange to me in kingmaker though.

I think your problem might be you are misreading the chart. The blue dot doesn't represent your current alignment, the big dot does. You have a few previous choice displayed on the chart to track how you are moving. Grey dot mean a Law/Chaos choice, Blue a Good choice and Red an evil choice.

Hope this help clarify it a bit.

[Silamon]

Originally posted by Tourak:

Originally posted by Silamon:

If I were moving towards lawful neutral with pure lawful choices, wouldnt the dot have moved towards the left (lawful) and not towards the right (neutral good)? It looks like it is being pulled towards Neutral good/true neutral rather than lawful neutral to me. Maybe I am just reading it wrong? It never looked so strange to me in kingmaker though.

I think your problem might be you are misreading the chart. The blue dot doesn't represent your current alignment, the big dot does. You have a few previous choice displayed on the chart to track how you are moving. Grey dot mean a Law/Chaos choice, Blue a Good choice and Red an evil choice.

Hope this help clarify it a bit.

I thought the large dot was the starting point? That is dead center of lawful good. It is the same place it put me when I respecced as lawful good.

[Tourak]

Originally posted by Silamon:

I thought the large dot was the starting point? That is dead center of lawful good. It is the same place it put me when I respecced as lawful good.

Nah, the game doesn't track where you started. As I recall, as a new character, if you began as LG, you'd be in the LG circle, not the LG pie.

[Silamon]

Originally posted by Tourak:

Originally posted by Silamon:

I thought the large dot was the starting point? That is dead center of lawful good. It is the same place it put me when I respecced as lawful good.

Nah, the game doesn't track where you started. As I recall, as a new character, if you began as LG, you'd be in the LG circle, not the LG pie.

http://prntscr.com/1rn2e1k
This one is from before I respecced, the big dot is in about the same place despite having a lot more alignment changes there. Had to reload an older save.

Edit: I think I might see what you mean now. The larger dot in the older one is a bit closer to the circle than after the respec since I had made more good choices. Seems I was in fact reading it wrong.

[ArtfulDoger]

Originally posted by StingingVelvet:

Originally posted by SnuffSaid:

There is literally zero of what you are describing. The Chaotic answer is never even remotely good, there is no chaotic good here. Every choice is in a vacuum, and Chaotic is always dickish. There has not been a single response appropriate for a paladin martyr angel outside of good and a handful of lawful ones. But even the lawful ones are clearly catering to the Hellknight philosophy for the most part, which is fascist like mentioned previously.

Off the top of my head stopping Helrun or whatever his name was from killing some of the priests was a chaotic action. Letting him have them was the lawful one. That's just an example on the fly.

What I am saying about the alignment balancing itself is 100% true either way. I am playing true neutral and make some good/bad and chaotic/lawful decisions sometimes, but as long as I mix it up I stay right in the middle at neutral, no problem. If you're going for lawful good and make some chaotic or neutral choices sometimes to be a better person that's fine, as long as you make some others that balance things out. If you just click lawful or good every time then yes, you will drift, as they're not always paired.

This isn't the best example, because if you have Ember with you before you approach this group, she will call Hulrun out as the one who had her burned at the stake. He will refuse to apologize - then you get an option to call him a monster and lawfully attack him. That's one of the times I was caught off guard on a second run of Chapter 1.

The demented writing really kicks it up a notch in Chapter 2+, where a lot of the Lawful choices are straight up executing people. Some of them seem to be context-dependent to fish for compliments from Regill. And don't get me started on how frivolous some of the crimes the Aeon calls out are. Why tf do I care about petty stuff? I'm a servant of the cosmic order.

[Silamon]

Originally posted by ArtfulDoger:

The demented writing really kicks it up a notch in Chapter 2+, where a lot of the Lawful choices are straight up executing people. Some of them seem to be context-dependent to fish for compliments from Regill. And don't get me started on how frivolous some of the crimes the Aeon calls out are. Why tf do I care about petty stuff? I'm a servant of the cosmic order.

Oh god that sounds horrible. Are there lawful choices that don't just end with people getting executed?

[Tourak]

Originally posted by Silamon:

Originally posted by Tourak:

Nah, the game doesn't track where you started. As I recall, as a new character, if you began as LG, you'd be in the LG circle, not the LG pie.

http://prntscr.com/1rn2e1k
This one is from before I respecced, the big dot is in about the same place despite having a lot more alignment changes there. Had to reload an older save.

Edit: I think I might see what you mean now. The larger dot in the older one is a bit closer to the circle than after the respec since I had made more good choices. Seems I was in fact reading it wrong.

Yup, you were moving toward LG.

[Tourak]

You're at war with the demons. You're running a war time army, not a city. Just look at our own history and you'll see capital punishment wasn't that rare during warfare. Be it from action sapping moral to desertion.

[Silamon]

Originally posted by Tourak:

You're at war with the demons. You're running a war time army, not a city. Just look at our own history and you'll see capital punishment wasn't that rare during warfare. Be it from action sapping moral to desertion.

I suppose I don't know what the circumstances in the future might be yet, but the choices I have seen so far that ended in execution didn't have to go that way. The crusaders attacking ember were clearly unsure of themselves. They could easily have been imprisoned in the defender heart basement, just like Woljiff was. Even ember calls you out for having the guy executed.

What I most disliked about that choice was that it doesn't actually say anything about having them executed. It was just something along the lines of they should still be punished. I was quite surprised by that. I hope that doesn't happen a lot in the future.

[Dark3nedDragon]

Originally posted by EvilDonut:

So, i am lawful good. I almost always picked GOOD dialogue choices.
I shifted towards neutral good. Wtf?

You have betrayed the law

[RocketMan]

Originally posted by Ashtrails:

always gotta spice up your kindness and wisdom with some of the good old notions of genocide, injustice and blind obedience, otherwise the system won't let you be lawful good.

you know, like all lawful good people should do?
it's a perfectly thought out and immersive system.

I really hate that this is how they implemented Lawful choices.

Lawful characters are rigid in their beliefs, and like to uphold order. That doesn't mean they're blind sheep killing indiscriminately.

And evil choices are worse! Be like. Lawful. You kill this dude. Evil. You kill this dude and his friends.