Are these troop 'upgrades' some kind of inside joke from Owlcat, or a bug?

[Daliena]

Title.

Basic footmen - https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2597092616

So-called "Champions" in "heavy armor" https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2597092736

Either I'm missing something, or in return for giving your infantry more damage, you completely dumpster their ability to actually survive a fight. Their HP, for whatever reason, drops to almost half, and despite claims of the champions' heavy armor, they're rocking AC 8. They even have worse saves than Footmen just to rub it in.

Hell, even the quote-unquote poorly-trained conscripts somehow manage to actually upgrade on the Footman, by giving them more HP (42 footman, 78 conscript) and a tiny bit more damage.

The shieldbearers are another oddity - while their HP increases and they gain DR 1/-, they again -lose- AC for some unfathomable reason, having only 11 to the footmen's 13.

[Lightning]

I believe champions have way better crit as well they seem to be killing a ton more mobs than my regular footmen have. A group of 300 footmen couldn't kill nearly as many as a group of 50 champions did

[Robotnik]

Shieldbearers also only can move like 2-3 squares.

[Daliena]

Originally posted by Lightning:

I believe champions have way better crit as well they seem to be killing a ton more mobs than my regular footmen have. A group of 300 footmen couldn't kill nearly as many as a group of 50 champions did

Champions do have a lot more damage, it's true.. But basic footmen are already vulnerable as it is, completely wrecking all of their defenses (lower HP, lower AC, lower saves to keep them from being stinking clouded or stunned into oblivion) in return is a real tough sale, I feel?

Originally posted by Athos Atreides:

Shieldbearers also only can move like 2-3 squares.

2 squares if I remember right from the few I picked up somewhere in chapter 2. Still it just seems weird that out of these quote-unquote 'upgrades', the supposed mass-recruited trash is the only one that's an actual straight upgrade, whereas everything else compromises massively on something or other.

[ShivaX]

Yeah, if nothing else that doesn't remotely match what is on the tin.

[Daliena]

Originally posted by ShivaX:

Yeah, if nothing else that doesn't remotely match what is on the tin.

Exactly. Even putting aside the dubiousness of some of these sidegrades, the description is so wildly off the mark that it feels like it must be a mistake, right?

If you listened to your advisors and/or read the descriptions, you'd get the impression that

-Champions are going to be very few in number, but powerhouses (instead they're as fragile as an archer in a knife fight, just able to hit back hard)

-Shield bearers are largely worthless on the attack but bodyblock well (okay, mostly correct, but I still fail to see why giving them heavier armor and a tower shield leads to -lower- AC)

-And conscripts are a downgrade but recruited fast and en masse to let you swarm down the enemy with cheap troops (yet they're actually stronger than the supposed professional footmen you had before)

[Kurosu]

That explains why my champions die so easily . They do a hell of damage but they became glass cannons.

However I must say that shield guys suck. They are terrible for offense , slow , and its not like they can get "aggro" or anything .

I guess the best option there was conscripts . I hired a few as mercenaries and they seem adequate

Looks like Seelah gives bad advises at least in the first branch. Her morale boost in the other council is also the lowest , but I picked it because the rest didnt fit my LG character.

[shde2e]

Yeah, the infantry stats are completely out of whack. This does feel like it got all mixed up somehow, not that this is intended behaviour.

[Goatmanpig]

I think they get lower replenishment as well, so they get balanced out and then the game is like "lets make them worse than footmen" making them worthless because they no longer serve the point of infantry at all.

Actually tried to make a thread about it before but never caught on

Edit: You're experiencing a glitch btw if you have recruited Graybor, he's suppose to give you a Spearman option. Just reload the autosave for the event.

[Kurosu]

According to some feedback I saw today spearmen and conscripts are teh best option . Personall I hope champions and shield breakers get a small buff ( the first on defense and the second on offense or at least make them magnets like clerics)

[Hirdmann]

shieldbearers are good for mage with many alchemy labs - while they live, you cast and kill enemy. Champions for melee commander that boost their attack and def. Just run to enemy and make damage.
I personally have snipers, champions and cuirasiers. Snipers and champions for melee commander, and cuirasiers+hellknights and shieldbearer mercenaries for mage. They push demons from both sides of map in same time.

[F.O.A.M]

just use clerics, they seem to have an auto taunt when they are close to an enemy. idk why but demons despises clerics more than anything

[Meridian117]

10/10 on the cleric agro. I find that almost ALL enemies will prioritise the clerics over any other units. And clerics are fairly tanky with 82 hp each, so they can take a punch. And then once per battle heal themselves or another ally. They also get smite evil, which is hugely useful against certain enemies in act 2, and beyond

[Ixal]

Spearman > rest

[CHAO$$$]

The number after unarmed strike is "to-hit" chance.

So going from 5 to-hit up to 14 to-hit is a huge upgrade yes, so is going from +6 damage per hit to +15. Wether or not its worth the loss in hp is debateable

[shde2e]

Originally posted by CHAO$$$:

The number after unarmed strike is "to-hit" chance.

So going from 5 to-hit up to 14 to-hit is a huge upgrade yes, so is going from +6 damage per hit to +15. Wether or not its worth the loss in hp is debateable

It could have been worth it if the units are of roughly equal value IMO. But champions are valued far higher, so the basic units win out through sheer force of numbers.