The Best Archetypes so far.

[Selvokaz]

This is obviously opinion fueled, no need for anyone to become upset. Not every Archetype was 100% play tested from the start of the game until the end, and of course party composition also determines how well some of these work.

1.) Sylvan Trickster: A good reason to have some decent int in Rogue has finally appeared. Hexes are Int Based (presumably, as it doesn't mention any alteration from Witch), That includes great curses like Slumber, Animal Skin, Death Curse, and so on. You also get DR /Cold Iron, which is really good considering how much of it you get. 10 at 20th lv. What makes this and any other Archetype good is that you don't give up much for it. You keep full Sneak Attack, and its optional whether or not you get a Hex or take a Rogue Talent, you do lose Uncanny Dodge, and Improved UD but you can get them back if it's you choice with a use of Rogue Talent.

2.) Divine Scion: Paladin suffers because it's not as hard hitting as the fighter or as defensive as the fighter depending on how the fighter is built. It's not as skill oriented as the Ranger or Slayer either. It's specializes in attacking evil targets and it does that kind of well but its a very narrow focus. This Archetype changes that, Now you're a Paladin with a hard on for killing everyone. This Archetype however needs in my opinion a 2 lv deep into one of the Rogues other Archetypes and that's Underground Chemist for Brew Potion, Sneak Attack, Weapon Finesse, a few additional class skill options, Throw Anything, and Evasion, if you're a dex paladin, then maybe stay for Finesse Training in at lv. The real selling point though is Study Target and Sneak Attack in Divine Scion, meaning so long as you're flanking you're getting bonus to hit and damage rolls, and of course sneak attack damage. Divine Scions also get one extra skill point per lv over normal Paladins, so yeah you could kind of build yourself as a divine assassin.

3.) Elemental Witch: Bar the best archetype for Witch. If you've played a Kineticist but still wish you could cast spells this is the archetype for you. You get a energy blast that functions as a Ray, (ranged touch attack), that grows in power as you level up in the class. You pick 1 element at first lv, and another at 11th, the damage is 1d6 at 1st lv, plus 1d6 every three lvs after that, capping at 6d6. You of course keep your full spellcasting abilities save for the fact that your patrons are limited to Witch and Elements, with Winter being the likely better choice after act 1 when you should definitely take Ascended element Cold. Pretty much makes being a Kineticist pointless.

these are just my first 3 picks so far of course there are others.

Less details

1.) Slayer: Arcane EnForcer, wish this was a base class with limited spellcasting like Bloodrager.

2.) Magus: Hexcrafter look up Sylvan Trickster for why.

3.) Sohei Monk: Either as a Paladin Dip or its own build it adds a lot of versatility in how you can play the monk.

[Black Hammer]

Selvokaz の投稿を引用：

Pretty much makes being a Kineticist pointless.

Sure, assuming your elemental ray can be made to ignore Spell Resistance, go 50 feet, and knock people down.

The utility of the witch is far higher, and the hexes are great, but the reason to play a kineticist is that despite being a one-trick pony, it's a hell of a trick they have.

[Mauman]

You lose like a bunch of hexes for a paltry 6d6 ray.

I can't say I'm impressed.

As for my new favorite....

I've been trying out Rowdy Rogue. It's pretty cool to be hitting 50-60 damage at level 4.

[Foolswalkin]

Mauman の投稿を引用：

You lose like a bunch of hexes for a paltry 6d6 ray.

I can't say I'm impressed.

I agree, but not because I think a spammable 6d6 ray is awful, it's just that some of the best hexes themselves are spammable, so it's the action economy opportunity cost.

I do think Sylvan Trickster is an interesting Rogue archetype, and Uncanny Dodge isn't super difficult to get through MCing if you miss it enough but it too has an opportunity cost issue where it's hexes vs. rogue tricks. I think overall its a notable improvement over basic Rogue, because you can cherry pick the best hexes and tricks for your build, but I think Vivisectionist Alchemist or Shadow Shaman are probably stronger choices overall.

I also like Unsworn Shaman quite a bit, although some of its gloss is gone if you're playing with respeccing. Still, on your second playthrough once you know what to expect, I think being able to add metagame knowledge to optimize your Spirit and Hex loadout on the fly is going to be very strong.

Primal Druid is the best Metamorph class available since they choked on the Alchemist version. Enlarge Person is your mutagen, Wild Shape is easy to get unlimited once Mythic kicks in, and full spellcasting otherwise.

If they would fix Hunter and give it access to all Summon Nature's Ally spells the way it is supposed to be, Divine Hound would be great. AFAIK they can qualify for the Mythic unlimited Judgment feat, looking forward to that.

Dirge Bard gets honorable mention - I don't think it's jawdroppingly powerful, but given how much it gains and how little it loses it's a fantastic upgrade to Vanilla Bard.

[Selvokaz]

Black Hammer の投稿を引用：

Selvokaz の投稿を引用：

Pretty much makes being a Kineticist pointless.

Sure, assuming your elemental ray can be made to ignore Spell Resistance, go 50 feet, and knock people down.

The utility of the witch is far higher, and the hexes are great, but the reason to play a kineticist is that despite being a one-trick pony, it's a hell of a trick they have.

Ascended Element assures that no one will ever resist not only your Cold Spells, but Cold Attacks period. Elemental Ray isn't a spell its a Su ability, thus no SR applies, this is taking the place of a Hex thus to reiterate no one is getting SR to it. As far as augmenting the ray to do things like Bull Rush or Trip, I don't see why any feat that would allow a archer to do any of those things wouldn't allow the witch to attempt the same with a Ray. If you can use a combat manuver with a ranged weapon it should work with a ray, difference is witches don't have high BAB so their CMB is going to suck and thus i wouldn't suggest it but that doesn't mean magic can't make up for it, I forget doe witches get Grease?

[Mauman]

Selvokaz の投稿を引用：

Black Hammer の投稿を引用：

Sure, assuming your elemental ray can be made to ignore Spell Resistance, go 50 feet, and knock people down.

The utility of the witch is far higher, and the hexes are great, but the reason to play a kineticist is that despite being a one-trick pony, it's a hell of a trick they have.

Ascended Element assures that no one will ever resist not only your Cold Spells, but Cold Attacks period. Elemental Ray isn't a spell its a Su ability, thus no SR applies, this is taking the place of a Hex thus to reiterate no one is getting SR to it. As far as augmenting the ray to do things like Bull Rush or Trip, I don't see why any feat that would allow a archer to do any of those things wouldn't allow the witch to attempt the same with a Ray. If you can use a combat manuver with a ranged weapon it should work with a ray, difference is witches don't have high BAB so their CMB is going to suck and thus i wouldn't suggest it but that doesn't mean magic can't make up for it, I forget doe witches get Grease?

NO, they don't. In ANY way whatsoever. To my VAST annoyance. You can get most of the pit spells though with right magic ring though.

Granted, that doesn't happen for a while.

[Selvokaz]

Foolswalkin の投稿を引用：

Mauman の投稿を引用：

You lose like a bunch of hexes for a paltry 6d6 ray.

I can't say I'm impressed.

I agree, but not because I think a spammable 6d6 ray is awful, it's just that some of the best hexes themselves are spammable, so it's the action economy opportunity cost.

Agreed, but you just have to be more of a savy minded player in my opinion. Most hexes can only be used on a target once then whether or not it saves or fails, you can't do it to them again, that's when the option of using the Ray steps in, however this archetype isn't the only one with such an issue, any witch has the same decisions to make, its arguably why the witch so OP, once a Hex no longer works you'd cast a spell anyway, now rather than cast a spell you can choose to use a Ray.

[Marine Ops Specialist]

invulnerable rager is my new favorite archetype for pathfinder, you can make really nasty things if you follow the lich mythic path

[Selvokaz]

Also as far as the tripping goes, they might not be able to cast grease but they can summon a bunch of mutts or a Dire Wolves to attempt it for them. Whether or not the dogs or wolves succeed at tripping, the Witch is still firing those rays off.

[Foolswalkin]

Selvokaz の投稿を引用：

Foolswalkin の投稿を引用：

I agree, but not because I think a spammable 6d6 ray is awful, it's just that some of the best hexes themselves are spammable, so it's the action economy opportunity cost.

Agreed, but you just have to be more of a savy minded player in my opinion. Most hexes can only be used on a target once then whether or not it saves or fails, you can't do it to them again, that's when the option of using the Ray steps in, however this archetype isn't the only one with such an issue, any witch has the same decisions to make, its arguably why the witch so OP, once a Hex no longer works you'd cast a spell anyway, no rather than cast a spell you can choose to use a Ray.

Kinda? You lose about 1/2 your hex toolbox as an Elemental Witch, so you're going to run out of Hexes that are applicable in a given combat much faster, and in order to justify taking that loss you're going to pick more of the non-reusable ones more so you can get to the pew-pew-pew. A Witch is guaranteed applicable, powerful, and flexible hexes for a whole combat with Protective Luck, Evil Eye, Misfortune, Cackle, and Slumber. That's an 8th level Vanilla Witch or a level 16 Elemental Witch.

[Kasa]

The crossblooded sorcerer is not as bad as one might think, you give up a lot of spell utility but by taking 2 of the same elemental dragon bloodlines you get a +2 PER dice to any spells of that element you cast, Red/Gold dragon (cause I wanna see that family) getting a +10 to burning hands keeps it a nice trash mob cleanup and a +24 damage to scorching ray makes a nice smack to a lot of things you use it on.

Also nice touch is the fact your lacking in high level spells leaves more room for metamagic.

[Selvokaz]

Kasa の投稿を引用：

The crossblooded sorcerer is not as bad as one might think, you give up a lot of spell utility but by taking 2 of the same elemental dragon bloodlines you get a +2 PER dice to any spells of that element you cast, Red/Gold dragon (cause I wanna see that family) getting a +10 to burning hands keeps it a nice trash mob cleanup and a +24 damage to scorching ray makes a nice smack to a lot of things you use it on.

Also nice touch is the fact your lacking in high level spells leaves more room for metamagic.

interesting, back in kingmaker with the Call of the Wild Mod, i experimented with Red/Undead (Granddad was a Dracolich), mostly because I wanted that DR for Dragon Disiciple and polymorphing into various forms.

[peterebbesen]

Kasa の投稿を引用：

The crossblooded sorcerer is not as bad as one might think, you give up a lot of spell utility but by taking 2 of the same elemental dragon bloodlines you get a +2 PER dice to any spells of that element you cast, Red/Gold dragon (cause I wanna see that family) getting a +10 to burning hands keeps it a nice trash mob cleanup and a +24 damage to scorching ray makes a nice smack to a lot of things you use it on.

Also nice touch is the fact your lacking in high level spells leaves more room for metamagic.

Another good crossblooded is draconic/elemental of same type, and when you go mythic, Ascendent Element of that type.

E.g. silver/water/cold - from level 1 on, all your energy damage is converted to cold (including descriptors) and gets +1 die, regardless of original element. So demons with FR? who cares. When you go mythic with Ascendent Element(Cold), you'll ignore elemental resistances and immunities with ALL your spells. Fireball, cone of cold, chain lightning, stormbolts, whatever - it is all cold damage, gets +1 per die from draconic, and laughs at anything but saving throws and spell resistance.

[Mithrals]

Alchemist - Vivisectionist: Great spell list, sneak attacks, Mutagen and rogue talents. The best of almost all worlds.

Sorcerer - Overwhelming Mage: Higer dc's when you need it, better spell penetration. And access to some pretty good bloodlines like all sorcs.

Arcanist - Brown fur Transmuter: Hands down best buffer in the game, can give some crazy party stat buffs AND high level wizard buffs that are usually reserved for arcane casters to everyone in the party given enough spell slots.

Magus - Sword Saint: This class can do what no other class can in melee combat and takes melee to a decent level. The combos you can do with the trickster mythic path is totally game breaking.

[Frozen Dervish]

Eldritch Scoundrel - You lose a few sneak attack, some rogue die, some rogue talents and uncanny dodge, but gain spellcasting. As a tank Eldritch has been golden so far. Not sure how much different Vivi would play in comparison, but the lack of combat feats from rogue tricks definitely hurts along with no finesse or finesse training, or debilitating injury.

[Foolswalkin]

I feel like Vivi just crushes Scoundrel because its spellcasting is “free” (not traded for sneak attack or rogue talents), extracts don’t interfere w armor, and you still get mutagen.