The Best Archetypes so far.

[Selvokaz]

This is obviously opinion fueled, no need for anyone to become upset. Not every Archetype was 100% play tested from the start of the game until the end, and of course party composition also determines how well some of these work.

1.) Sylvan Trickster: A good reason to have some decent int in Rogue has finally appeared. Hexes are Int Based (presumably, as it doesn't mention any alteration from Witch), That includes great curses like Slumber, Animal Skin, Death Curse, and so on. You also get DR /Cold Iron, which is really good considering how much of it you get. 10 at 20th lv. What makes this and any other Archetype good is that you don't give up much for it. You keep full Sneak Attack, and its optional whether or not you get a Hex or take a Rogue Talent, you do lose Uncanny Dodge, and Improved UD but you can get them back if it's you choice with a use of Rogue Talent.

2.) Divine Scion: Paladin suffers because it's not as hard hitting as the fighter or as defensive as the fighter depending on how the fighter is built. It's not as skill oriented as the Ranger or Slayer either. It's specializes in attacking evil targets and it does that kind of well but its a very narrow focus. This Archetype changes that, Now you're a Paladin with a hard on for killing everyone. This Archetype however needs in my opinion a 2 lv deep into one of the Rogues other Archetypes and that's Underground Chemist for Brew Potion, Sneak Attack, Weapon Finesse, a few additional class skill options, Throw Anything, and Evasion, if you're a dex paladin, then maybe stay for Finesse Training in at lv. The real selling point though is Study Target and Sneak Attack in Divine Scion, meaning so long as you're flanking you're getting bonus to hit and damage rolls, and of course sneak attack damage. Divine Scions also get one extra skill point per lv over normal Paladins, so yeah you could kind of build yourself as a divine assassin.

3.) Elemental Witch: Bar the best archetype for Witch. If you've played a Kineticist but still wish you could cast spells this is the archetype for you. You get a energy blast that functions as a Ray, (ranged touch attack), that grows in power as you level up in the class. You pick 1 element at first lv, and another at 11th, the damage is 1d6 at 1st lv, plus 1d6 every three lvs after that, capping at 6d6. You of course keep your full spellcasting abilities save for the fact that your patrons are limited to Witch and Elements, with Winter being the likely better choice after act 1 when you should definitely take Ascended element Cold. Pretty much makes being a Kineticist pointless.

these are just my first 3 picks so far of course there are others.

Less details

1.) Slayer: Arcane EnForcer, wish this was a base class with limited spellcasting like Bloodrager.

2.) Magus: Hexcrafter look up Sylvan Trickster for why.

3.) Sohei Monk: Either as a Paladin Dip or its own build it adds a lot of versatility in how you can play the monk.

[Frostfeather]

ES and Vivi aren't really directly comparable because they have different strengths and you should be using them differently.

That said, because Bolster is so strong right now, ES wins because they can Bolster offensive spells and Vivi can't.

[Mortis]

Preservationist (alchemist) is amazing! Throw force bombs and let summons kill the disabled enemy.

[Foolswalkin]

Frozen Dervish님이 먼저 게시:

Foolswalkin님이 먼저 게시:

ES gets 5 Rogue Talents, Vivi get 10 Medical Discoveries.

You are correct I actually went into the game and found combat trick within the medical discoveries as an option I must have missed it when I skimmed over it.

Cool. For what it's worth, I also went in game and checked whether ES got special independent bonus Rogue feats. They're essentially 2 up on Vivi from Finesse stuff and 5 down on Rogue Talents (ish).

[Foolswalkin]

night4님이 먼저 게시:

ES and Vivi aren't really directly comparable because they have different strengths and you should be using them differently.

That said, because Bolster is so strong right now, ES wins because they can Bolster offensive spells and Vivi can't.

Yeah, but that's a bug and ES is wildly behind a Vivi/Wizard/AT if that's what you're going for. To be one of the best archetypes I think it has to be able to defend some valuable niche against all comers, and I don't see what ES is defending successfully.

[Frostfeather]

Foolswalkin님이 먼저 게시:

night4님이 먼저 게시:

ES and Vivi aren't really directly comparable because they have different strengths and you should be using them differently.

That said, because Bolster is so strong right now, ES wins because they can Bolster offensive spells and Vivi can't.

Yeah, but that's a bug and ES is wildly behind a Vivi/Wizard/AT if that's what you're going for. To be one of the best archetypes I think it has to be able to defend some valuable niche against all comers, and I don't see what ES is defending successfully.

It doesn't matter if it's a bug, it matters if you can do it in game right now. I've been asking Owlcat to fix some serious bugs since day 1 of Kingmaker, and they've all been copy/pasted into WotR. So who knows if/when they'll change it.

And the discussion (I thought?) was ES vs Vivi, not ES vs some Vivi multi that comes online relatively late. And ES/AT is fantastic too, I've done that before.

[Foolswalkin]

Midnight님이 먼저 게시:

Foolswalkin님이 먼저 게시:

To reply to OP’s thing on Sohei - I haven’t gotten to play with them yet and the devil’s in the implementation on Sohei (there’s even 2 “official” versions in PnP). But Paladin 2 Beast Rider 2 Sohei X seems potentially quite good once they fix mounted combat - taking Beast Rider before Sohei gives you broad choice of mount, and all the Sohei levels will add to it without trapping you w just horse choices.

One of the best things about Sohei is that they get to flurry of blows with spears or polearms by lvl 6. Until then you need a monk weapon to do so hence probably a quarterstaff.

Pushing that ability to level 10 is a pretty steep price to pay for a beast mount (horses are really good btw).

You could go Beast Rider 1/Sohei 6/Paladin 2/Beast Rider 2/Sohei X if you're worried about the order. I'm quite partial to the beasts with baked in trip attacks, given the free AoOs on stand, and the single attack type makes weapon focus much better for them.

[DarkOne]

Mithrals님이 먼저 게시:

Alchemist - Vivisectionist: Great spell list, sneak attacks, Mutagen and rogue talents. The best of almost all worlds.

Sorcerer - Overwhelming Mage: Higer dc's when you need it, better spell penetration. And access to some pretty good bloodlines like all sorcs.

Arcanist - Brown fur Transmuter: Hands down best buffer in the game, can give some crazy party stat buffs AND high level wizard buffs that are usually reserved for arcane casters to everyone in the party given enough spell slots.

Magus - Sword Saint: This class can do what no other class can in melee combat and takes melee to a decent level. The combos you can do with the trickster mythic path is totally game breaking.

By any chance, do you have time to write what feats to take for a Sword Saint GVS with 1 monk dip ?

[Skor]

I'm having fun with a Stonelord Pally. At level 2, he hit for 53 damage. Went great axe focus. Couple that with some nice DR and defense and he can hang toe to toe and lay down some serious smack.