Is building around natural attacks viable?

[Dominosugar]

I'm not seeing the multiattack feat, and it looks like the Scaled Fist doesn't add the unarmed strike effects to natural attacks. Am I missing something? What is a good way to make a natural attack based character?

[Dominosugar]

Can anyone confirm if monk improved unarmed strike works for natural attacks in this game?

[CHAO$$$]

claws were entirely different from fists in kingmaker if i remember correctly - you shouldnt expect anything that works with fists to work with claws and vice versa

Vivisectionist at level 2 can pick up an elixir modification that allows to grow claws while elixir is active giving a very significant powerspike early in the game

Natural weapons probably wont be particularly good by lategame due to the lack of magic properties unless theres a unique item in the game that does exactly that

Stacking bite attacks with motherless (racial subclass of thieflings or whatever they were called) and bloodrager serpentine bloodline level1 + sneak attacks/strength is probably still alright.

[Naked Granny]

I wouldn't rely upon natural attacks other than your fists with monk features. Animal companions and wild shape natural attacks are treated as different weapon types by the game at the moment (It's likely someone will mod it to resemble tabletop rules more closely because they want to break the game's balance, but you'll have to wait for that or write the mod yourself).

For the first five levels it might be powerful, but this is Wrath - which is an extremely hyper super duper high power campaign involving mainly demon enemies. Which will all have DR. And if you can't penetrate that DR (because your claws aren't made of cold iron), you're gonna be doing either harshly reduced damage or nothing at all. Natural attacks, as a strategy, relies upon quantity of attacks, not the pure damage per-hit. The majority of your game time will be in the mid levels where DR is common and enemy variety is the main source of danger. If you over-specialize in one thing that's too gimmicky, you're guaranteed to eventually encounter something immune to whatever your gimmick is.

Is it "viable"? I mean. Builds with Monk class features are viable while they are using their actual fists. I wouldn't try to use exotic temporary buffs / transformations as a primary build mode though, that's just asking to get shut down hard by anything not susceptible to your specific gimmick (like having DR you can't bypass or not having the time to buff up before combat begins or having your buffs wear off / get dispelled).

[Dominosugar]

Originally posted by CHAO$$$:

claws were entirely different from fists in kingmaker if i remember correctly - you shouldnt expect anything that works with fists to work with claws and vice versa

Vivisectionist at level 2 can pick up an elixir modification that allows to grow claws while elixir is active giving a very significant powerspike early in the game

Natural weapons probably wont be particularly good by lategame due to the lack of magic properties unless theres a unique item in the game that does exactly that

Stacking bite attacks with motherless (racial subclass of thieflings or whatever they were called) and bloodrager serpentine bloodline level1 + sneak attacks/strength is probably still alright.

Thank for the answer. Wasn't there a popular Scaled Fist/Dragon Disciple/Sorc build making use of natural attacks? I'm just wondering if scaled fist actually adds anything to the build in this game.

[LeThall]

Originally posted by Aunt Tony:

I wouldn't rely upon natural attacks other than your fists with monk features. Animal companions and wild shape natural attacks are treated as different weapon types by the game at the moment (It's likely someone will mod it to resemble tabletop rules more closely because they want to break the game's balance, but you'll have to wait for that or write the mod yourself).

For the first five levels it might be powerful, but this is Wrath - which is an extremely hyper super duper high power campaign involving mainly demon enemies. Which will all have DR. And if you can't penetrate that DR (because your claws aren't made of cold iron), you're gonna be doing either harshly reduced damage or nothing at all. Natural attacks, as a strategy, relies upon quantity of attacks, not the pure damage per-hit. The majority of your game time will be in the mid levels where DR is common and enemy variety is the main source of danger. If you over-specialize in one thing that's too gimmicky, you're guaranteed to eventually encounter something immune to whatever your gimmick is.

Is it "viable"? I mean. Builds with Monk class features are viable while they are using their actual fists. I wouldn't try to use exotic temporary buffs / transformations as a primary build mode though, that's just asking to get shut down hard by anything not susceptible to your specific gimmick (like having DR you can't bypass or not having the time to buff up before combat begins or having your buffs wear off / get dispelled).

There is a Mystic Feat/Passive that you can learn on Mythic Level 1, where your Natural Attack ignore any kind of DR, very hopeful to Natural Attacker like Elemental Rampager or Feral Champion

[Dominosugar]

Very cool. Thanks!

[Lord451]

That mystic power also affects monk's unarmed strikes, which makes monks viable.

[Thrax]

Originally posted by Lord451:

That mystic power also affects monk's unarmed strikes, which makes monks viable.

There is also a really bad ass lich mythic for it too.

[Paper Red]

I answered someone else in another thread but I'll go ahead and post what I know. Here is the All You Need To Know on this topic (Warning, long chain post. Worth a read if you're interested). Maybe I'll write a guide for this if enough people ask this question & I keep repeating myself.

[Paper Red]

The claw attacks are Natural Attacks. They take up any empty hand (so don't use a 2H weapon or two 1H weapons or just don't any non-natural weapon)

You may make natural attacks for the # of limbs you possess (forelimbs for claws, horns for gore, maw/mouth for bites, tails for slams, rear/lower limbs for tramples & stomps). These are both made at full BAB and do not suffer offhand penalties (ever, so you can use natural attacks to two-weapon fight but totally ignore the associated feats. In Kingmaker there was a really overpowered Scimitar for natural attacks+animal companions which was good for Feral Mutagen or Grow Claw builds,and bite stacking with the trip cloak).

Pay attention to whether the natural attacks you're stacking are Primary or Secondary.
Natural Weapons in OwlCat's pathfinder games do not work with Unarmed Attack related traits and features, so don't worry about Monk'ing it up with Natural Weapon Attacks (I'm unsure if Sohei archetype has a Weapon Training set that includes Naturals).

[Paper Red]

Additionally: In OwlCat's Pathfinder games you won't see bite attacks in your inventory like you would with Claws. Same goes for Gore attacks. You will need to manually count the # of bites you're stacking. Sources of bites include: HalfOrc (feat), Tiefling (Motherless), Kitsune (Not Transformed), Feral Mutagen, Serpentine Bloodline (+CON poison), Barbarian Rage Power, etc. (can't think of much more rn, sorry)

You can get a Gore from taking the first Mythic Rank selection Close To The Abyss. (In Kingmaker there was the Triple Fin Helmet which granted you a 1d8 Cold Iron +2 Gore attack, not sure if this item is in WotR)

If bite stacking seems tedious and you want to take some pain out of Natural Weapon Attacks, just go with Vital Strike and scale with Power Attacks and Sneak Attacks (+any strategy to make enemies helpless or flat-footed/flanked). Vital Strike will remove iterative attacks, so you will only attack with a claw (no bites/gores).

STR is the best stat for Natural Weapons, but in Wrath of the Righteous you can get Mythic Weapon Finesse (for DEX to Damage Rolls) or Agile Fist Amulet (Act 1 before Grey Garrison, its in one of the notable places to explore). Don't dump STR if going DEX unless you can get Cleave for free somewhere else (like bloodlines @ level 12).

[Paper Red]

Final Note: You wont see your bites/gores if you don't make a full-round attack (attacking without moving). Kitsune are extremely good here because of the Vulpine Pounce racial feature you can take at BAB 10 which gives you Pounce. You can use a Charge to move further than 10ft up to twice your movement, Pounce will give you a full-round attack toward your target. You can still acquire Pounce through Barbarian Rage Powers (Beast Totem III) and possibly elsewhere.

I am currently playing a DEX based Bloodrager Primalist Kitsune with natural claws, bites, and a gore.