Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Enhanced Edition

Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Enhanced Edition

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Flip Oct 5, 2021 @ 9:13am
Getting tired of all these High AC enemies
I am in the abyss and it seems every second enemy has 50+ AC which is impossible for my characters to hit without rolling a 20. Sure I don't have munchkin builds but I would expect to be able to deal on Normal but nope, I have to reduce several levels in order to have a chance to hit. Add to that most of the buffs to Attack don't stack and there are limited AC reduction that isn't resisted and I am not sure what to do.

I do not understand how I am supposed to deal with these, outside of my main caster my other casters cannot damage, buff and heal enough to win these fights.
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Showing 76-90 of 212 comments
Edstyles Oct 6, 2021 @ 1:46am 
Originally posted by Flip:
Originally posted by Edstyles:
You have alot of damage oriented casters i think that might be a problem.

Any spells that you recommend that could help or are you saying ditch the casters?

Not nessesarily but for instance you could get a freebooter to help the party this would help Even your casters to some extent
Gracey Face Oct 6, 2021 @ 1:48am 
Originally posted by Flip:
Originally posted by Edstyles:
You have alot of damage oriented casters i think that might be a problem.

Any spells that you recommend that could help or are you saying ditch the casters?

Casters are not the best thing in 3.5 to begin with, they just don't have the damage output of melee to begin with, and when you have a large number of them then their weakness is even worse.

For example you can have two (or more) full fledged melee guys all threatening one target, hitting ~9 times in a turn each, with a 25% chance of critting, and each crit they land will make every other person threatening get an attack of opportunity. So you're potentially getting 10+ 100+ damage attacks out of each person.

Even lvl 9 spells struggle to do 100 damage in a single casting.
Edstyles Oct 6, 2021 @ 2:00am 
Freebooter . Domains . Bard . Could be some ideas. Also pets can be quite nice. Think Seelah can share Smite and you also got judgements with inquisitor
Last edited by Edstyles; Oct 6, 2021 @ 2:02am
Flip Oct 6, 2021 @ 3:19am 
Originally posted by Edstyles:
Freebooter . Domains . Bard . Could be some ideas. Also pets can be quite nice. Think Seelah can share Smite and you also got judgements with inquisitor

Can any NPC be made into these? I want to use the NPC game comes with, not mercs, not looking to min/max :)
Flip Oct 6, 2021 @ 3:21am 
Originally posted by Gracey Face:
Originally posted by Flip:

Any spells that you recommend that could help or are you saying ditch the casters?

Casters are not the best thing in 3.5 to begin with, they just don't have the damage output of melee to begin with, and when you have a large number of them then their weakness is even worse.

For example you can have two (or more) full fledged melee guys all threatening one target, hitting ~9 times in a turn each, with a 25% chance of critting, and each crit they land will make every other person threatening get an attack of opportunity. So you're potentially getting 10+ 100+ damage attacks out of each person.

Even lvl 9 spells struggle to do 100 damage in a single casting.

My MC can get around 130 from lvl 7 Scorch (Max + Empowered + items). Ember can get 300+ easy from Chain lightning (AoE dmg). But I do get your point, but I really don't like Melee in this game, maybe it's because I play turn based but they are SO SLOW, takes 2 rounds just to get them to the target and hope the DPS melee arn't dead by then. Just seems to take a lot to actually get them to hit (also they are SO SLOW in Turn based it's infuriating)
Sador Oct 6, 2021 @ 5:02am 
Originally posted by Gracey Face:
Originally posted by Flip:

Any spells that you recommend that could help or are you saying ditch the casters?

Casters are not the best thing in 3.5 to begin with, they just don't have the damage output of melee to begin with, and when you have a large number of them then their weakness is even worse.

For example you can have two (or more) full fledged melee guys all threatening one target, hitting ~9 times in a turn each, with a 25% chance of critting, and each crit they land will make every other person threatening get an attack of opportunity. So you're potentially getting 10+ 100+ damage attacks out of each person.

Even lvl 9 spells struggle to do 100 damage in a single casting.
Entirely the opposite, casters reign supreme. They struggle a bit in the early levels (as always) but higher level casters are amazing and the mythical feats just make them absurd. Ignore all elemental immunities? Check. Extra caster slots of all levels? Check. Spell penetration? Check. 24h (so basically permanent) buffs? Check.

Even Ember, who lacks some great spells like haste and doesn't get access to MC godlike powers is an absolute monster with her spells. Whether it's her ray spells that do great damage, her crowd control spells, or just high level things like polar midnight on an entire enemy group, she's so powerful.

If you find casters weaker than melee fighters, especially in WotR, you're doing something horribly wrong. They're not even remotely close after the first few levels.
Edstyles Oct 6, 2021 @ 5:19am 
Originally posted by Flip:
Originally posted by Edstyles:
Freebooter . Domains . Bard . Could be some ideas. Also pets can be quite nice. Think Seelah can share Smite and you also got judgements with inquisitor

Can any NPC be made into these? I want to use the NPC game comes with, not mercs, not looking to min/max :)

Yeah you can easily dip ranger 5 on any of your martials. Cleric domain you get from sociel . For instance , Ember has evil eye too. Ember has some debilitating abilities too and blind. I would usually dip 5 for wenduag freebooter, but you can easily do this on Lann too. See no reason why not.
Last edited by Edstyles; Oct 6, 2021 @ 5:27am
Creomortis Oct 6, 2021 @ 6:01am 
Originally posted by Sador:
Originally posted by Gracey Face:

Casters are not the best thing in 3.5 to begin with, they just don't have the damage output of melee to begin with, and when you have a large number of them then their weakness is even worse.

For example you can have two (or more) full fledged melee guys all threatening one target, hitting ~9 times in a turn each, with a 25% chance of critting, and each crit they land will make every other person threatening get an attack of opportunity. So you're potentially getting 10+ 100+ damage attacks out of each person.

Even lvl 9 spells struggle to do 100 damage in a single casting.
Entirely the opposite, casters reign supreme. They struggle a bit in the early levels (as always) but higher level casters are amazing and the mythical feats just make them absurd. Ignore all elemental immunities? Check. Extra caster slots of all levels? Check. Spell penetration? Check. 24h (so basically permanent) buffs? Check.

Even Ember, who lacks some great spells like haste and doesn't get access to MC godlike powers is an absolute monster with her spells. Whether it's her ray spells that do great damage, her crowd control spells, or just high level things like polar midnight on an entire enemy group, she's so powerful.

If you find casters weaker than melee fighters, especially in WotR, you're doing something horribly wrong. They're not even remotely close after the first few levels.

Could you talk out of your arse anymore?

Casters are weak in the beginning and mid game. End game is where they shine.

Melee and ranged archers can be just as good if not better than casters in some
scenarios. Their usefulness throughout the game can not be questioned.

Are you playing on less than core? If that is the case then I can believe some of what you are saying.
[Heretic]Rivga Oct 6, 2021 @ 6:19am 
Woljiff as debilitating weakness, or whatever it is called, on of them choices is -2 AC (and -4 AC for him) and more I you choose more levels in rogue.

Use a quickened spell, the one that gives +20 extra hit chance, lower the AC and then chop up. If you boost his initiative he goes first and the rest follow.

If you must go Alchemest the incense one has some good team boosts.

In this game you need to look at your party as a team each supporting each other not as individuals.
[Heretic]Rivga Oct 6, 2021 @ 6:31am 
Originally posted by Creomortis:
Originally posted by Sador:
Entirely the opposite, casters reign supreme. They struggle a bit in the early levels (as always) but higher level casters are amazing and the mythical feats just make them absurd. Ignore all elemental immunities? Check. Extra caster slots of all levels? Check. Spell penetration? Check. 24h (so basically permanent) buffs? Check.

Even Ember, who lacks some great spells like haste and doesn't get access to MC godlike powers is an absolute monster with her spells. Whether it's her ray spells that do great damage, her crowd control spells, or just high level things like polar midnight on an entire enemy group, she's so powerful.

If you find casters weaker than melee fighters, especially in WotR, you're doing something horribly wrong. They're not even remotely close after the first few levels.

Could you talk out of your arse anymore?

Casters are weak in the beginning and mid game. End game is where they shine.

Melee and ranged archers can be just as good if not better than casters in some
scenarios. Their usefulness throughout the game can not be questioned.

Are you playing on less than core? If that is the case then I can believe some of what you are saying.

Depends what you mean by mid game, a party built around casting can own, especially with mythic abilities and taking advantage of cross blooded sorc splashes.

I have an early party, that I got to act 3 with before restarting, that had a merc court poet and my MC was a Inquisitor with madness domain (thanks to Nerd Commando for giving me the idea)

The poet, increased main caster statistics and the main character hit the primary target with a debuff that lowers saving throws. Not much stood up to that, again having a party specifically built to support the main goal really helps.
SpiralRazor Oct 6, 2021 @ 8:49am 
Originally posted by HereticRivga:
Originally posted by Creomortis:

Could you talk out of your arse anymore?

Casters are weak in the beginning and mid game. End game is where they shine.

Melee and ranged archers can be just as good if not better than casters in some
scenarios. Their usefulness throughout the game can not be questioned.

Are you playing on less than core? If that is the case then I can believe some of what you are saying.

Depends what you mean by mid game, a party built around casting can own, especially with mythic abilities and taking advantage of cross blooded sorc splashes.

I have an early party, that I got to act 3 with before restarting, that had a merc court poet and my MC was a Inquisitor with madness domain (thanks to Nerd Commando for giving me the idea)

The poet, increased main caster statistics and the main character hit the primary target with a debuff that lowers saving throws. Not much stood up to that, again having a party specifically built to support the main goal really helps.


On "normal" though, that shouldnt be required.
Gracey Face Oct 6, 2021 @ 9:46am 
Originally posted by Sador:
If you find casters weaker than melee fighters, especially in WotR, you're doing something horribly wrong. They're not even remotely close after the first few levels.

No, I am correct. It's just a simple result of the way the ruleset works. Martials double dip, have more bredth to increase their hitting power, etc.

The only thing casters do well is CC, which is actually incredibly valuable, but feat heavy martials can also do this often better via combat maneuvers and towards the end of the game don't even need to rely on maneuvers once you get into proc per hit enchants.
Zengar Oct 6, 2021 @ 10:52am 
There is something I don't understand about this complaining stuff. Isn't the idea that to have enemies that require different strategies? having almost impossibly high AC is no different than having an enemy immune to physical damage and vulnerable to magic in any other rpg.
However, it seems that the expectation here is that if the build is decent, you should be able to use any tool against any encounter that is not a boss.

My complain is different. I hate the D20 system used to have a diablo like experience. Having 12 attacks per round, doing hundreds of damage. Dealing with BAB, saves and AC past 50 when the dice is still a 20. The system just wasn't build to be used like that. Those numbers were to represent gods, just for reference of power and capacity, never to be actually used.
But my main problem, is that this happens really, really quick. One of my surprises is the amount of trash battles there are in the this game. You are wailing non stop waves of enemies, sometimes at level 2, 3.
It's clear this is not D&D, at all. I like the game, but I like it more when I treat it as a stand alone game that does it's own thing than constantly measuring it against the idea of simulating a tabletop experience. Clearly, no matter how much would love to be the case, this is NOT the developers intention. We have to judge the game as it's own beast.

So, in short, be prepared to hit any part of the enemy, any element, any defense or you will fail because at some points, all your strength will be weaknesses.
Gracey Face Oct 6, 2021 @ 10:59am 
Originally posted by Zengar:
There is something I don't understand about this complaining stuff. Isn't the idea that to have enemies that require different strategies? having almost impossibly high AC is no different than having an enemy immune to physical damage and vulnerable to magic in any other rpg.
However, it seems that the expectation here is that if the build is decent, you should be able to use any tool against any encounter that is not a boss.

The difference is that in a "normal" RPG these minor enemies with immunities to specific forms of attack will have corresponding weaknesses to counteract that a portion of your team is not able to do anything, which just doesn't happen in this game.

So it's not directly comparable.
prof_pessimist Oct 6, 2021 @ 4:25pm 
Originally posted by Flip:
Originally posted by Edstyles:
You have alot of damage oriented casters i think that might be a problem.

Any spells that you recommend that could help or are you saying ditch the casters?
Glitterdust, grease, web, slow, haste, and sirocco will be your best friends.

Dust, slow, and grease all change AC or make the affected targets lose DEX bonus to AC. I dont know anyone who doesnt run at least a haste wand - more AC and an extra attack is just a necessary thing.
a "selective" sirocco can make whole encounters easy

its important to rememember meta magic when using casters. If your new just look at:

"selective" - This makes AOE spells like grease and glitterdust not hit your own party.
"Heighten" - this raises the DC of your spells. So a level 3 spell like slow, can be cast at level "x" allowing the DC to scale and hit late enemies.

Item selection is also a must for casters. You need those items that raise the DC of your spells. although this isnt necessary with normal as much.

You also mentioned that you wanted to ditch melee - do not do this. If your having trouble a well rounded party is probably your best bet. Going all casters ect. requires alot of knowledge of mechanics you admittedly dont have. TBH it sounds like you should do the opposite - melee requires much less knowledge of the game and enemies - maybe limit yourself to two casters. I would choose ember and Daren, shape ember for CC and debuff and Daren for buff and healing - mythic channelling with spirit boost will give you an average of 50hp more in battles.
Last edited by prof_pessimist; Oct 6, 2021 @ 4:30pm
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Date Posted: Oct 5, 2021 @ 9:13am
Posts: 212