Getting tired of all these High AC enemies

[Flip]

I am in the abyss and it seems every second enemy has 50+ AC which is impossible for my characters to hit without rolling a 20. Sure I don't have munchkin builds but I would expect to be able to deal on Normal but nope, I have to reduce several levels in order to have a chance to hit. Add to that most of the buffs to Attack don't stack and there are limited AC reduction that isn't resisted and I am not sure what to do.

I do not understand how I am supposed to deal with these, outside of my main caster my other casters cannot damage, buff and heal enough to win these fights.

[Werchiel]

I still don't understand how are we supposed to deal with getting ambushed on level 8 by three pumpkin demons that have 7 attacks per round and sucubi that can slaughter a nontank character within the first round of combat.

Balance < Narcotics
~Owlcat motto

Originally posted by CHAO$$$:

Youre the guy who thought respeccing ember with 3 levels in witch into a sylv sorc for the pet is a good idea so i'd say there's a fundamental problem with your approach to the game and everything else is a result of that.

To be honest any other spellcaster is better than a witch.
♥♥♥♥ me even fighers are better at spellcasting than a witch.

[CHAO$$$]

Youre the guy who thought respeccing ember with 3 levels in witch into a sylv sorc for the pet is a good idea so i'd say there's a fundamental problem with your approach to the game and everything else is a result of that.

[Sashenka]

Normal is far from requiring munchkin builds. Can you post your party, maybe we can give you some pointers. Do you buff and debuff? Pathfinder is pretty reliant on those to be efficient.

[Flip]

Current Party
MC - 15 Sylvan Sorc/azata Fire Focused (Ascendant Element, Spell Pen, Evocation, Maximize spell etc etc)
Ember - 14 Witch / 1 Sorc (Dual BL) - Lightning Focuses, Bracer of Storms, Ascendant Element etc etc
Daelan - 15 Oracle + Salamander Ring (Ascendant Element etc)
Lann - Pure Zen Archer
Arue - Pure Espionarge Expert
Woljiff - Rogue 4 / Viviscectionist 11


Mages have all the feats (Point Blank, Ascendant element, focus, spell pen etc). I have taken off all skills that reduce attack on my martials as well. Buffs including Haste, Protection From, Bless, Heroism, Shield of Faith, Blurr/Displacement, Shield etc

[Flip]

Originally posted by CHAO$$$:

Youre the guy who thought respeccing ember with 3 levels in witch into a sylv sorc for the pet is a good idea so i'd say there's a fundamental problem with your approach to the game and everything else is a result of that.

You mistake the difference between asking and doing

[CHAO$$$]

Originally posted by Werchiel:

I still don't understand how are we supposed to deal with getting ambushed on level 8 by three pumpkin demons that have 7 attacks per round and sucubi that can slaughter a nontank character within the first round of combat.

Balance < Narcotics
~Owlcat motto

Originally posted by CHAO$$$:

Youre the guy who thought respeccing ember with 3 levels in witch into a sylv sorc for the pet is a good idea so i'd say there's a fundamental problem with your approach to the game and everything else is a result of that.

To be honest any other spellcaster is better than a witch.
♥♥♥♥ me even fighers are better at spellcasting than a witch.

The fact that the guy who hates on a class that comes with a crapton of hexes crys about the game is hillarious but not surprising whatsoever.

[Werchiel]

There are many ways of getting through high AC enemies. Building a standard cornugon smash/shatter defences on your mele's seems to be one of the most obvious and I usually go for it on every strength character (sometimes even dex ones). Global buffs debuffs are good like Prayer, if you use a monk then crushing blow is MVP, Outflank is strong if you have at least 2 melee's.
For casters standard is Spell Pen + Greater Spell pen + mthic spell pen, better yet if you can play an arcanist or overhelming mage. Bard songs are quite good (or sensei - he can inspire courage and crushing blow which effectively adds around 12-13 to attack for everyone), if you are strong on spellcasters try to use spells that immobilize enemies like hold person/monster or ice prison since then you will always hit them pretty much.

[Flip]

Originally posted by Werchiel:

There are many ways of getting through high AC enemies. Building a standard cornugon smash/shatter defences on your mele's seems to be one of the most obvious and I usually go for it on every strength character (sometimes even dex ones). Global buffs debuffs are good like Prayer, if you use a monk then crushing blow is MVP, Outflank is strong if you have at least 2 melee's.
For casters standard is Spell Pen + Greater Spell pen + mthic spell pen, better yet if you can play an arcanist or overhelming mage. Bard songs are quite good (or sensei - he can inspire courage and crushing blow which effectively adds around 12-13 to attack for everyone), if you are strong on spellcasters try to use spells that immobilize enemies like hold person/monster or ice prison since then you will always hit them pretty much.

The problem of course is I have none of that, I posted the party above. I have 1 melee (excluding Azata Dragon and Bulwark bear). My mages for the most part are fine, they hit, they do what they are supposed to do. But the archers and whichever melee I have (in this case Woljif) cannot hit these high AC enemies. My best Martial character is my bear because at least he cannot be hit by 95% of the enemies I meet.

[wendigo211]

Owlcat balances their games around touch and flat-footed ACs, if you aren't attacking those you're going to need to roll a 20. There's no getting around that, it's just their design philosophy.

[Flip]

So how do I force Flat Footed outside of attacking from stealth? Many fights are thrown on you without stealth so

[Winger]

Originally posted by Flip:

So how do I force Flat Footed outside of attacking from stealth? Many fights are thrown on you without stealth so

Shatter Defenses is a popular choice.

[Flip]

Is that a melee feat? Maybe the problem is I don't have enough melee fighters? Got 1 Dps melee, 2 archers, 3 casters and a bulwark Animal (that cannot really hit anything due to Defensive Fighting)

[Princess Pilfer]

So.
BAB 10. Dex/str 10. Weapon Focus 2. Outflank 4. Enchantment +5
You're already at +31 to hit.
Depending on your class there is still: Mutagen, Judgements, Smite, Quarry, Favored Enemy, Studied Target, weapon enchantment abilities (as from shaman or magus,) Morale (as Rage or bard songs or bless,) size, mythic abilities, and we're assuming that you aren't debuffing the enemy (which you should be.)

In short, you get high enough attack bonus to consistently hit the same way you get high enough AC to consistently dodge. Feat and class feature stacking. It's not actually hard you just have to do it. (and this doesn't mean you have to go full munchkin.)

Find the various sources (morale, enchantment, competence, sacred, ect) and put as many of them on the chracter as you have to.

[Brother PaciFist]

Take the thundering blows mythic ability. You will do some damage to enemies every round. It is better then no damage. Try to use necromancy or holy spells. Read all spells carefully, some have no spell resistance checks. ETC. A buffed Lann or ascended, spell penetrating Ember or Nenio should destroy everything on normal with metamagic maximize, persistent, heightened spells.

[Tonik]

You dont have bard/scald/inqusitor/paladin for attack buffs. You don have sosiel with his attack buff.
You dont use shatter defence mechanic.
You need 3 feats: weapon focus, Dazzling Display, shatter defence.
Your bard/scald using fear song. All melee gets their flat footed damage.
Also use greater invisibility.
There are like 5-6 sources of attack/stat buffs you can stack. Like luck, nature, enchantment, sacred, competence, size etc.
You should know them all, or you will not make it.