should i play pathfinder: kingmaker first?

[Stockwerk 13]

will i be behind on the story?
or is part 2 just "better" than the first one?

[CommanderWaffle]

Start with Kingmaker: Definitive Edition. I run into rage-quit level bugs every session that I put into WotR: unfinishable missions, companion bugged perma-death, unclickable abilities, allies that won't attack, etc.

Whatever state Kingmaker was in at launch, it's now very fun and engaging, and pretty darn cheap on Steam. I had a lot of fun playing Kingmaker. But you should definitely watch a YouTube tutorial first, there are lots of little gameplay quirks that you might miss otherwise.

I suspect WotR will be in a good place in another month or two, but right now it can be a chore to play.

[Burn One Twice]

Maybe it's the game breaking bug I just experienced in my current WotR playthrough that is pretty much forcing me to abandon it, but if you want a better experience I would highly recommend playing Kingmaker first.

Wrath of the Righteous itself is the true Swarm-That-Walks. Insane amount of bugs right now.

[There is no Mango]

My question is : as someone who highly dislikes the mere presence of timed stuff in such games, how bothered would I be with the time pressure of Kingmaker ?

[T.W. Hamill]

If you play Kingmaker, learn the ins and outs of the Kingdom Management (when to skip days and when not to, what missions are worth doing, which ones you HAVE to do so your stats go down, and which ones you can safely just if ore if youre busy) before you start. Because otherwise, you can make a decision that will out your kingdom into a total deathspiral but you might go another 30 hours before you see the Game Over screen.

Reading that, youll be like “then ill just turn Kimgdom Management off” - dont. You skip a TON of quests and miss out on the artisan crafters who will come work for you and can create legendary items (in addition to making you “regular” magic items that can be quite potent every few months as well).

Its really not that hard to do the Kingdom management once you learn to avoid the things that can make you crash and burn.

Otherwise, Kingmaker is in a much more stable state than Wrath (which is odd, since many of the bugs were FIXED in Kingmaker, but are back in Wrath, like they started over with the client rather than just adding onto the already-patched Kingmaker engine) though prople are, by and large, exagerating their issues. Plenty of have already completed a playthrough or more than one without serious bugs. Just be aware that there ARE bugs, and a lot of skills and spells simply dont work right.

[Red Phantom]

Escrito originalmente por Mango Season:

My question is : as someone who highly dislikes the mere presence of timed stuff in such games, how bothered would I be with the time pressure of Kingmaker ?

Depends on how you deal with it. It's very manageable if you focus on getting any timed events out of the way first, and then you're pretty free to do whatever you want for several months of in game time until the next act begins. I didn't find it to be much of a problem at all.

[T.W. Hamill]

Escrito originalmente por Mango Season:

My question is : as someone who highly dislikes the mere presence of timed stuff in such games, how bothered would I be with the time pressure of Kingmaker ?

If you just go and get the time sensitive quests out of the way at the start of any given chapter, youll find yourself with MONTHS worth of time to ♥♥♥♥ around or just skip days while working on kingdom stuff. I always ended up skipping lots of weeks.

[There is no Mango]

That's good to know, thanks.

[Red Phantom]

It's honestly a pretty big contrast to crusade management, because that has to be constantly micromanaged and paid attention to.

[Donduffino]

Yes, but a few things:

1) don't feel even the least bit bad for using guides or turning down the difficulty for kingmaker. Many quests are broken. On some of them, I actually wish physical harm on whoever thought of them and let them through quality control. It's not that things will be broken and unfair, but they will be broken and unfair in the worst way possible.

2) You need to actually learn the Pathfinder system to be good at the game. What feats lead to what other feats and what they go with and why some aren't as good as they sound

3) know that Wrath makes both these things better

4) know that Wrath makes both these things worse

5) it's the best time to play Kingmaker because it's now mostly bug free

I just really, really want to love both Pathfinder games, but it feels like the developers just don't want you to sometimes. It's weird.

[CommanderWaffle]

Escrito originalmente por Donduffino:

Yes, but a few things:

1) don't feel even the least bit bad for using guides or turning down the difficulty for kingmaker. Many quests are broken. On some of them, I actually wish physical harm on whoever thought of them and let them through quality control. It's not that things will be broken and unfair, but they will be broken and unfair in the worst way possible.

2) You need to actually learn the Pathfinder system to be good at the game. What feats lead to what other feats and what they go with and why some aren't as good as they sound

3) know that Wrath makes both these things better

4) know that Wrath makes both these things worse

5) it's the best time to play Kingmaker because it's now mostly bug free

I just really, really want to love both Pathfinder games, but it feels like the developers just don't want you to sometimes. It's weird.

In Kingmaker, whatever difficulty level you're thinking of playing, play chapter one at the difficulty level below that one. Then bump up the difficulty at chapter 2. When you get to the House at the End of Time, drop the difficulty again.

It's not cheating nor laziness, it's correcting for some really awfully balanced encounters.

[Hathur]

There is no narrative reason to play Kingdom first... but yes you should play it, but you can play it after if you prefer. The stories aren't remotely connected at all. Kingdom is definitely worth playing if you enjopy WoTR, it's a good rpg.

[Astral Projection]

Yes. Both great.

[Donduffino]

Escrito originalmente por CommanderWaffle:

Escrito originalmente por Donduffino:

Yes, but a few things:

1) don't feel even the least bit bad for using guides or turning down the difficulty for kingmaker. Many quests are broken. On some of them, I actually wish physical harm on whoever thought of them and let them through quality control. It's not that things will be broken and unfair, but they will be broken and unfair in the worst way possible.

2) You need to actually learn the Pathfinder system to be good at the game. What feats lead to what other feats and what they go with and why some aren't as good as they sound

3) know that Wrath makes both these things better

4) know that Wrath makes both these things worse

5) it's the best time to play Kingmaker because it's now mostly bug free

I just really, really want to love both Pathfinder games, but it feels like the developers just don't want you to sometimes. It's weird.

In Kingmaker, whatever difficulty level you're thinking of playing, play chapter one at the difficulty level below that one. Then bump up the difficulty at chapter 2. When you get to the House at the End of Time, drop the difficulty again.

It's not cheating nor laziness, it's correcting for some really awfully balanced encounters.

I actually managed to do the whole thing on hard when I first bought it, just to challenge myself I guess. But did I have fun? Probably not as much as I would have.

When I first played it, I basically missed a lot of content because I just drilled it into my head that if something fails, it fails. If something gets timed out, it gets timed out. It an optional is too hard, leave and come back. Not this time though.

The thing about Kingmaker is not only are quests timed, it's that some are timed, some aren't, and some are without letting you know, and some aren't while implying they are.

I'll give an example from my current playthrough, so spoilers ahead.

In chapter 3, Ekun got depressed and runs off with his evil side-piece Ntavi. You have about a week to find him. The game doesn't tell you this. At about the same time, Linzi needed me to rescue her teacher from the oak near my city. It's implied that you must hurry. Turns out he is trapped by a Mite with some centipedes. Also, you need to take Jubal to the fey debates, which are implied to be starting at any moment.

Which of these are actually timed? Ekun's quest. The one the game doesn't tell you is timed, though you get a message when time is about to run out (and you better hope you're less than a day away from the encounter when you get the message). The other two? Not timed. Linzi's friends will play their lutes for those centipedes until the chapter ends two hundred days later. The "urgent" debates start at your convenience.

But that's not all. When you go see Ekun, he asks you to complete a ritual to honor his dead family. You have exactly the amount of time it takes you to get to the ritual site, or it fails. This is also not mentioned in the journal. Need to rest? Better not, even though you know there will be a ridiculously hard surprise combat waiting for you. Want to manage the (extremely urgent by developers' design) kingdom affairs? It'll fail and you lose Ekun.

This is just one example of frustration I've encountered on my current playthrough. And keep in mind that I know the system well, let myself use guides, and remember a lot of the stuff that's going to happen.

Sorry for the rant, but like I said: you want to love these game, you want these to be your favorite games, but it seems like the devs made a lot of very deliberate choices to introduce frustration rather than fun into the game for no reason whatsoever.

[Kinzuko]

why do people keep asking this? it seems painfully obvious that they are not connected in any way other than developer, engine, and base rule set, and setting.

if you want a cheep single player pathfinder video game with strict time limits and a totally unfun kingdom management system that drags on far far too long go get kingmaker (and if you want an unplayable experience get it on console- any console, it doesn't work on any of them as it should)

if you want a single player pathfinder videogame with a shorter story, more content and more reasonable difficulty and dont mind bugs go get wrath of the righteous.

[Quacksalber]

This game is much better imo, but it's also bugged. Having said that, theY managed to reintroduce bugs into Kingmaker recently too. I'd say, if you want ton play both games, probably start with Kingmaker. By the time you are done, this will likely have a lot of the annoying stuff fixed.