Best crowd control vs demons?

[Eclipse]

Hi,everyone!
Playing on unfair some demons have 9-12 save vs crowd control status effects+magic resistance 16 or so. Minmaxed chars usually have 15-16 difficulty on their spells and 5-6 piercing. Odds aren't good. May be some effects are extra vs demons?Grease etc. they save on 3-4 (rarely on 6) with additional 50% chance to ignore target effects like sleep etc.

[djinnxy]

most of em are not immune to either shaken or paralyze or both. So persuasion 3 trickster works well. Many of them even coup de grace themselves. There's also some nice items to add to that so they have to save higher and vs more stuff. I'm thinking if you add a trip charge to that they have to make all 3 saves so it should cover almost everything.

[jRocket]

Probably the best is Hideous Laughter because of Best Jokes and there are a lot of ways to increase enchantment DCs. Only problem is immunities, but the extra bloodlines get around that kind of.

Min-maxed sorcerer enchanter-

Half-Elf for 22 starting Cha + 6DC
Spell Focus +1DC
Greater Spell Focus +1DC
Improved Elven Immunities +1DC
Crossblooded Sorc with Fey bloodline +2DC
Hideous Laughter +2DC for 2nd level spell

That's DC 23.

For Conjuration like the pit spells and grease, not as many ways to increase the DCs. There is the Arcanist who can increase the DC of any spell. You could also pick the Evil Eye hex on one of your companions to lower the enemy saves.

[tempest.of.emptiness]

The kineticist form infusion "Deadly Earth" turns a decent area into difficult terrain which also does damage to enemies within it when placed and again at the start of their turn. That damage does not need to make a to-hit roll and ignores spell resistance. Many weaker foes will die or be seriously damaged trying to cross it, and most enemies are at least slowed down by it. (Naturally your level relative to the strength of the enemies will be a significant factor in how much damage it causes relative to the enemies' health totals.) When combined with "Grappling Infusion", enemies in it will have to make a save to avoid being grappled, which gives it a chance to additionally do some soft crowd control.

This isn't necessarily going to be all the crowd control that you need, but it could be a worthy addition to your arsenal.

[Nismu]

grease, web and entangle were my go to on early game, (specially with selective spell metamagic) though i guess on unfair those wont land well so perhaps just mass summon to keep enemies busy for round or two.

[Eclipse]

Originally posted by John:

Probably the best is Hideous Laughter because of Best Jokes and there are a lot of ways to increase enchantment DCs. Only problem is immunities, but the extra bloodlines get around that kind of.

Min-maxed sorcerer enchanter-

Half-Elf for 22 starting Cha + 6DC
Spell Focus +1DC
Greater Spell Focus +1DC
Improved Elven Immunities +1DC
Crossblooded Sorc with Fey bloodline +2DC
Hideous Laughter +2DC for 2nd level spell

That's DC 23.

For Conjuration like the pit spells and grease, not as many ways to increase the DCs. There is the Arcanist who can increase the DC of any spell. You could also pick the Evil Eye hex on one of your companions to lower the enemy saves.

Aren't they all immune to physcology? Especially goats and demons with tridents. I am only on lvl. 4 can't control them properly. Only conjuration is availible. I guess web/roots and bow party might work on low. lvl. but later on it won't (judging by Pathinder 1). And even this is questionable. Big goat has AC35. 27 on fitrst round.