Are enchantment spells worth it?

[Foehn]

Now in ACT IV, had Ember load up on enchantment spells with her elven racial feats, regular/mythic feats, gear, really anything that can boost her enchantment spells' DC.

Her tier 5 hold monster spell sits at DC 33, but most stronger enemies that actually require cc or debuff would have +30~ modifiers, making it highly unlikely for any of Ember's enchantment spells to land. Weaker monster do have lower modifiers/resistances, but they can be taken care of by regular attacks from the physical party before cc or debuff is required.

I like the idea of spells to weaken strong foes for the rest of the party, but am having trouble finding a viable path to do so.

How do you guys approach cc/debuffs? Are there better schools than enchantment or any tips on how to make enchantment work?

[CHAO$$$]

everything that is single target and gets a save each round is not worth it - that includes all single target hold spells

In general CC is LEAST useful for the strongest enemies since those tend to save especially on high diff and without super specialized builds.

Some spells have effects that dont get saves, those are the ones you want for strong enemies.
Some spells are persistent, forcing a save without spending more actions (grease/stinking cloud in the few areas where its useful/aura CC and debuffs)

^those are the ones you want.

[Foehn]

Thank you for the insight.

So far only 'guaranteed' debuffs I've come across are hexes (Evil Eye and Vulnerability).
Could you point to any other significant ones I could have use of?

In terms of aoe cc's I can definitely see uses for large encounters with numeral weaker mobs, but again it would fail to strong single targets with high modifiers.

Wondering what generally is the strategy/selection when it comes to debuffing those targets. If there is none then I guess the solution is to buff the crap out of own party.

[CHAO$$$]

Originally posted by Foehn:

Thank you for the insight.

So far only 'guaranteed' debuffs I've come across are hexes (Evil Eye and Vulnerability).
Could you point to any other significant ones I could have use of?

In terms of aoe cc's I can definitely see uses for large encounters with numeral weaker mobs, but again it would fail to strong single targets with high modifiers.

Wondering what generally is the strategy/selection when it comes to debuffing those targets. If there is none then I guess the solution is to buff the crap out of own party.

Early game there arent many that have an effect without a save.

Hexes are incredibly strong for that reason as you already noticed.

Boneshatter is one that i use (guarantees shaken and half damage).

Ray of exhaustion is a touch attack that guarantees fatigued->exhausted on 2nd cast but you have to hit the touch.

Lategame weird guarantees stun without a save. Frightful aspect guarantees shaken in an aoe (which is mandatory for shatter defense). Dirge Song effects like from dirge bards guarantees shaken as well?! i believe and is available way earlier than frightful aspect.

Some of the rank 2, 3 or 4 fear spells guarantee shaken (always get the names of the fear spells mixed up)

Magnetic infusion from Kineticist is another great one but you have to hit a touch attack each round and you basically need electric blast + ascendant element electricity to make it not crap.

Also buffing is indeed much better than debuffing since it completely removes the chance of resists.

[volourn]

YES. Espicially against strong physically over powered enemies that have 5+ attacks they never miss and do 50+ damage per hit. A nice type spell against likely a weak will save or even the few reflex hold spells, too. Also, grease perfectly aimed helps because SR is not an issue, and it is a save every round.