[SUGGESTION] next time give enemies tons more HP, not AC and

[Fluff]

and every possible feat in the game, like 5 teamfeats to enemy at level 3, or dwarven racial feats to an orc, etc.

Players on lower difficulties will say you thanks. Especially since most of the compains are from players that don't want to be "challenged with AC" on Normal and below - that should and will help that big chunk of playerbase. I read forum for quite a while to see same complains about Normal, Easy, Story difficulties - it's always the same:

i would like to play Normal-Easy difficulties and try whatever heroes and parties i want but "enemies die from 1 right click so it's not interesting"

Just give them tons of HP, so it will be nice to actually hit -(not miss, but not one shot either on lower diff-s)- smth that doesn't die from 1 hit or crit.


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This for higher diff-s, it's mostly fine and not topic's main section but:

Or doesn't one shot you with 1 round (well actually doesn't cause of Last Stand being OP, but hey i'm looking at you Descari, 10 hits for 300 dmg +70 modifier).

Path of Exile's "you one shot everything untill smth one shots you" is not the best example to be implemented into cRPG.

P.S - i finished the game 3 times, on Normal-Unfair difficulties, including slider of dmg maxed to 300%, the most pleasant run was on Normal-Core + additional enemy behaviors + more enemies, it feels more or less like not just stats +30 and that's all difficulty, and has much more space for some 'fun builds'. But anyways, both on Normal and Unfair difficulty there is same problem - 80-90% of fights are easy and borring, 10%+/- are indeed interesting and even well made, and 2-3% just F to new players, where you need to know what u'r doing and can't have party 'for fun' unless you'r at best on Normal if not lower. Also Act 1 & somewhat 2 made much more better and "hand-made" and polished that 3-5, but that's understandable. I just with everything was made so detailed like Act 1
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Having HP boosted instead of AC will get rid you of most of the complains from people who play on Normal and below. Boost AC from Core and above.

upd - or HP slider, as suggested below.
AC slider optionally. HP from 100% by default to 50% min - 500% max at least. Would love HP slider on Core+ also.

[アンジェル]

I am worried it might turn into a different kind of game, and then you get different complaints like having bloaters and alike. Not to mention it would be too different from the actual table top version, making it not Pathfinder anymore.

If anything, it would be interesting to see your idea in action. E.g. if some modder takes their time to either adjust the current campaign to your description or showing a selectable mod campaign with that setup.

[Fluff]

Originally posted by アンジェル:

I am worried it might turn into a different kind of game, and then you get different complaints like having bloaters and alike. Not to mention it would be too different from the actual table top version, making it not Pathfinder anymore.

If anything, it would be interesting to see your idea in action. E.g. if some modder takes their time to either adjust the current campaign to your description or showing a selectable mod campaign with that setup.

Well it's not like the game isn't different from table top version currently with unrealistic feats and AC some enemies have but i agree -

HP slider and AC sliders may be as an option. Yeah I thought about possible bloaters hp complains then, but such 2 sliders could work. And in any way enemies having more HP than AC will make game easier for people playing on Easy - Normal, but at the same time won't make it that much easy so they 1 shot everything with right click. Because i heard complains from people who tried Story mod - everything dies from 1 right click.

With some crit builds, or min-max builds (not even min-max, just some classes are much stronger than others) you kill things too quickly to even enjoy the gameplay later.

[Edstyles]

Yes plz id like to have this. This would open more weapon choices

[アンジェル]

Originally posted by Tusk_Luv:

HP slider and AC sliders may be as an option. Yeah I thought about possible bloaters hp complains then, but such 2 sliders could work. And in any way enemies having more HP than AC will make game easier for people playing on Easy - Normal, but at the same time won't make it that much easy so they 1 shot everything with right click.

You are most likely right about that. I can imagine it, despite I prefer how it is right now. But that by all means a personal preference of mine being challenged by not so obvious stats of the enemy and then turn the game around with the fitting spell.

But I can absolutely imagine casual players are not used to that but more to enemies having more HP. I am thinking of stuff as seen with Wolfenstein coop game or Borderlands 3. At higher difficulties it just feels the enemies have more HP but nothing new to show. And I personally consider it flat boring.

[Raigavin]

Is OP asking to turn Pathfinder into a MMO game?

[kiloromeo]

Something like this yes!!!

And also even more enemies for harder difficulty, not bloated insane enemy stats, unless people chose to play on "insane".

[Gracey Face]

No, more hitpoints will just make things that are already bad like blaster casters even worse and in doing so reduce the amount of "viable" playstyles.

If you're going to add HP, don't add HP add more enemies (so that the enemy team functionally has more HP). That way they're still dying as fast on an individual scale so it doesn't become as much of an obnoxious slog like inflated HP will (and it will also actually make things like blaster casters marginally more useful as well!)

[Fluff]

Originally posted by アンジェル:

Wolfenstein coop game or Borderlands 3. At higher difficulties it just feels the enemies have more HP but nothing new to show. And I personally consider it flat boring.

Yes, in shooters it's definitly a bad option to make, because there they should not being able to "eat 100 bullets" esp. headshots before they drop down. It's easier to made and explain logically in a non-shooter game though with magic, armor, mosnters etc etc.

Originally posted by Raigavin:

Is OP asking to turn Pathfinder into a MMO game?

No, there is a difference between making 100 hits to kill smth or ~5-7 hits at least instead of 1-2. Read what players that play on <Core <Normal write and you will understand everything yourself. Or try it yourself for fun, but there will be no actual fun, coz everything will die from 1 hit, again.

[Uzkin]

Eh, no. More HP would be terrible. Part of the strategy is to kill off the enemies with dangerous abilities before they can use them. It'd suck to chip off massive HP pools of stat/level draining enemies across multiple rounds while they happily drain your party into oblivion. I much prefer killing them during the surprise round with zero harm to the party.

[アンジェル]

Originally posted by Tusk_Luv:

Originally posted by アンジェル:

Wolfenstein coop game or Borderlands 3. At higher difficulties it just feels the enemies have more HP but nothing new to show. And I personally consider it flat boring.

Yes, in shooters it's definitly a bad option to make, because there they should not being able to "eat 100 bullets" esp. headshots before they drop down. It's easier to made and explain logically in a non-shooter game though with magic, armor, mosnters etc etc.

True. That makes sense. Well - fantasy world sense, I mean.

[Malaficus Shaikan]

I disagree.
While the game definitly need to be rebalance(Looking at you vrok cc spamm)

I hate great wall of china health bars.

What they need to do is remember that early game shoud not be players vs army.
Most pathfinder fun classes arent designed to attack move to victory.
Yet whenever i play i am asking myself:
Did they test this on a wizard?
A cleric?
Or any class that isnt a monk or fighter.
The combat has way to many enemies way to early.

Not a fighter or monk can just get by with health potions.
But your wizard?
Your cleric?
Long rests are a must.

[Gracey Face]

Originally posted by Tusk_Luv:

No, there is a difference between making 100 hits to kill smth or ~5-7 hits at least instead of 1-2. Read what players that play on <Core <Normal write and you will understand everything yourself. Or try it yourself for fun, but there will be no actual fun, coz everything will die from 1 hit, again.

Here's the thing, enemies don't die from 1-2 hits. The AC system is designed to allow enemies to survive.

The reason they don't survive in practical terms is because smacking away at things is boring, so people build to optimise damage output and so kill things which are supposed to last a while in 1-2 turns. Which is the exact same thing that they'd do if the problem was hitpoint pool instead of AC.


The only type of difficulty that people don't find obnoxious is complexity of enemy action.

[CHAO$$$]

The AC in this game is way overcomplained about.

Its really not that bad if you understand stacking of different types of buffs and feats.

Same with Spell resistance. Much more manageable than people make it out to be with proper feats. Nevermind the fact that some spells and abilities outright ignore it anyway.

[Gracey Face]

Originally posted by CHAO$$$:

Same with Spell resistance. Much more manageable than people make it out to be with proper feats. Nevermind the fact that some spells and abilities outright ignore it anyway.

Now that's a bold faced lie :D.

I have all the spell pen feats (including mythic) a couple of passives that raise my spell pen by about 2 more points the exploiter mage spellcaster level that raises it up 2 more points and there's at least one other thing.

Most of my spells are still resisted :D.

It might be managable if you look at a guide to find the best +Spell Pen items in the game and bumrush them all, but that's not how most players play.

[Fluff]

Originally posted by Gracey Face:

Here's the thing, enemies don't die from 1-2 hits. The AC system is designed to allow enemies to survive.

Again, go try mentioned difficulties.

Originally posted by Gracey Face:

so people build to optimise damage

Again, they don't. People make "builds that optimize" & min-max smth at Core and above. On lower difficulties you just play what you think is funny for you to play or a party you saw in Critical Role or some other show or any other. And the game has no balance between "too easy" and "too hard" for people who are here just to have fun and story.

On easy it's a problem of HP too low and everything dying from 1 hit no matter how bad is your hero. On higher it's a problem of too high AC on some enemies for people who came to enjoy the game & enjoy some fights (not min-max).

Originally posted by CHAO$$$:

The AC in this game is way overcomplained about.

Its really not that bad if you understand stacking of different types of buffs and feats.

Again. Different difficulties and people who go for them, as i wrote clearly. Not everyone plays games for their "gamer skills" or numbers of their "stolen min-max builds" (or made yourself) to be working vs in-game virtual numbers. People want to have fun and it's not fun to 1 shot things or not being able to deal any dmg at all. Or prebuff their party always. Some don't even have IRL time to spend on that each time.

If you'r fine doing and having fun on Core (i'm having fun here but again) or Unfair - it's nice, but it's not the topic i'm referring to.