How are pets so broken in Daring difficulty

[KobeBryant]

Do they work in Core and above? Are pets too strong?

My lahn was completely useless as a zen monk 9. I respec him to have huntsman (boon companion, animal companion) to get a leopard. The leopard has 36 AC (Bully) at level 8 lol. It trips, and hits 4 times. Does more DPS than any of my other high DPS users. The leopard has completely carried my team through Drezen and the lost chapel.

Than I get boon companion and a horse for my Paladin Seelah, and the horse has 33 AC (bulwark) and tanks better than Seelah herself...

I get Aivu (the little dragon) pet towards the end of Drezen and this guy's AOE magic spell does 36 damage. Stronger than my hardest hitting AOE magic user lol.

The three pets I have are all better than the main human companions in my group physically speaking. They all have higher AC and comparable DPS. The only thing they are missing are the spells.

[JustSmile]

Originally posted by ajohnemus:

Originally posted by JustSmile:

False. My party is 20, mythic 9, and Lann's a cleric18/zen2 with animal domain. His bear SLAPS, and I am on unfair. Early on it was mostly a trip engine, but now it just slaps.

Nope not false. You can buff a pet up sure, but buffing a person up will be better in every way the later you get into the game.

And why are you not buffing up both...? A pet is an extra party member at about ~80% power. If you don't see why is that extremely strong read up on action economy.

[Frozen Dervish]

Seelah with 1 lvl in Oracle(Nature) and 1 level in Witch can reach 41 AC in act 1.
She can reach around 50-60 in act 2.

I recommend any tank grab 1 lvl in witch for a free 5 AC. Seelah using Oracle(Nature) let's her use her cha as a dex modifier so you can lighten her armor and make use of non-plate through act 1 and 2.

[stars2heaven]

I think pets are either too strong or the alternatives for them are too weak. When you get to the point of creating a character or leveling them up and having to choose between a pet and some other feature (like weapon bond on a paladin) the pet is almost always better.

[jRocket]

They make great tanks when buffed with armor/natural armor/shield/deflection bonuses. Increase animal companion intelligence to 3 and pick crane style line of feats for even more AC. Only problem is low will saves.

[Conquista]

get a nature oracle one of its revelations lets you add the oracles charisma to animals saving throws around him

[provokastoras]

You know for me is a running joke... why make a fighter get a pet.
In pathfinder Kingmaker I finished unfair difficulty on the dlc and my main tank was not the monk they give you but the elk you get from the cleric. Ok my main was an alchemist and could cast shield barkskin and other personal range spells on it but after I started transforming it to a dragon it was hilarious.

[Rooter]

Originally posted by There is no mango.:

Lann as a zen archer was probably the best and most reliable damage dealer in my party on core.

No idea how he could be useless for you.

Same, regularly doing 30-50 damage per turn at level 7

[AnemoneMeer]

Originally posted by ajohnemus:

Originally posted by JustSmile:

False. My party is 20, mythic 9, and Lann's a cleric18/zen2 with animal domain. His bear SLAPS, and I am on unfair. Early on it was mostly a trip engine, but now it just slaps.

Nope not false. You can buff a pet up sure, but buffing a person up will be better in every way the later you get into the game.

Fundamentally untrue.

The Mythic Power that upgrades animals increases their stat scaling by a large amount. Furthermore, it also gives them near universal DR Bypass AND Regeneration Bypass. That zone with all the regen equip demons? Yeah, my cats just killed them the same as anything else.

Some animals get access to trip as an on-hit effect, instead of using its own action. Prone in WotR is a half stun, and triggers AoOs when they stand up, so it's already really good. Except WotR's order of operations is wrong and you can triplock enemies. They go to stand only to be re-proned, and then end their turn. That's just straight up stunlock.

There's a LOT of Communal buff spells. It's not hard to just... use the spells that buff the entire party. Likewise, there's a lot of party buff effects, be it paladin marking, sharing favored enemy effects, Evil Eye and other debuffs, bard songs or more.

Many animal companions have pounce. Being able to charge enemies and full attack makes them deadly in the surprise round, as they can full attack in the surprise round. Typically killing things before they get a turn.

They respawn on next rest. This makes them expendable. Expendable health is best health.

Animal friends are strong, reliable, and absolutely worth buffing, even on the higher difficulties. Use them to soak damage that could go to more important and expensive to revive characters. Use them to stunlock.

[MaxPayne™]

Originally posted by KobeBryant:

Do they work in Core and above? Are pets too strong?

My lahn was completely useless as a zen monk 9. I respec him to have huntsman (boon companion, animal companion) to get a leopard. The leopard has 36 AC (Bully) at level 8 lol. It trips, and hits 4 times. Does more DPS than any of my other high DPS users. The leopard has completely carried my team through Drezen and the lost chapel.

Than I get boon companion and a horse for my Paladin Seelah, and the horse has 33 AC (bulwark) and tanks better than Seelah herself...

I get Aivu (the little dragon) pet towards the end of Drezen and this guy's AOE magic spell does 36 damage. Stronger than my hardest hitting AOE magic user lol.

The three pets I have are all better than the main human companions in my group physically speaking. They all have higher AC and comparable DPS. The only thing they are missing are the spells.

lol my Lahn is the most strong in terms of DPS. You must have done something wrong.

[Miskatonic]

They are good, I just hate how clogged up they can make the screen so I try to avoid them.

[ajohnemus]

Originally posted by AnemoneMeer:

Originally posted by ajohnemus:

Nope not false. You can buff a pet up sure, but buffing a person up will be better in every way the later you get into the game.

Fundamentally untrue.

The Mythic Power that upgrades animals increases their stat scaling by a large amount. Furthermore, it also gives them near universal DR Bypass AND Regeneration Bypass. That zone with all the regen equip demons? Yeah, my cats just killed them the same as anything else.

Some animals get access to trip as an on-hit effect, instead of using its own action. Prone in WotR is a half stun, and triggers AoOs when they stand up, so it's already really good. Except WotR's order of operations is wrong and you can triplock enemies. They go to stand only to be re-proned, and then end their turn. That's just straight up stunlock.

There's a LOT of Communal buff spells. It's not hard to just... use the spells that buff the entire party. Likewise, there's a lot of party buff effects, be it paladin marking, sharing favored enemy effects, Evil Eye and other debuffs, bard songs or more.

Many animal companions have pounce. Being able to charge enemies and full attack makes them deadly in the surprise round, as they can full attack in the surprise round. Typically killing things before they get a turn.

They respawn on next rest. This makes them expendable. Expendable health is best health.

Animal friends are strong, reliable, and absolutely worth buffing, even on the higher difficulties. Use them to soak damage that could go to more important and expensive to revive characters. Use them to stunlock.

I can count on one hand the amount of times my dog has successfully tripped on Hard.

[Mauman]

Originally posted by John:

They make great tanks when buffed with armor/natural armor/shield/deflection bonuses. Increase animal companion intelligence to 3 and pick crane style line of feats for even more AC. Only problem is low will saves.

You don't need to waste a point on int.

Just equip any old +2 int headband at level up and they can take those feats.

Yes, it's not how it's supposed to be.

Yes, this bug has been around since Kingmaker.

No, it's likely not going to be fixed anytime soon :P

[JustSmile]

Originally posted by Mauman:

Originally posted by John:

They make great tanks when buffed with armor/natural armor/shield/deflection bonuses. Increase animal companion intelligence to 3 and pick crane style line of feats for even more AC. Only problem is low will saves.

You don't need to waste a point on int.

Just equip any old +2 int headband at level up and they can take those feats.

Yes, it's not how it's supposed to be.

Yes, this bug has been around since Kingmaker.

No, it's likely not going to be fixed anytime soon :P

That's not a bug, that's just how feats work. If you take the headband off the feat just stops working, since you need the ability score to both take it and utilise it.

Unless you mean going below requisite int does not toggle it off?

[AnemoneMeer]

Originally posted by ajohnemus:

Originally posted by AnemoneMeer:

Fundamentally untrue.

The Mythic Power that upgrades animals increases their stat scaling by a large amount. Furthermore, it also gives them near universal DR Bypass AND Regeneration Bypass. That zone with all the regen equip demons? Yeah, my cats just killed them the same as anything else.

Some animals get access to trip as an on-hit effect, instead of using its own action. Prone in WotR is a half stun, and triggers AoOs when they stand up, so it's already really good. Except WotR's order of operations is wrong and you can triplock enemies. They go to stand only to be re-proned, and then end their turn. That's just straight up stunlock.

There's a LOT of Communal buff spells. It's not hard to just... use the spells that buff the entire party. Likewise, there's a lot of party buff effects, be it paladin marking, sharing favored enemy effects, Evil Eye and other debuffs, bard songs or more.

Many animal companions have pounce. Being able to charge enemies and full attack makes them deadly in the surprise round, as they can full attack in the surprise round. Typically killing things before they get a turn.

They respawn on next rest. This makes them expendable. Expendable health is best health.

Animal friends are strong, reliable, and absolutely worth buffing, even on the higher difficulties. Use them to soak damage that could go to more important and expensive to revive characters. Use them to stunlock.

I can count on one hand the amount of times my dog has successfully tripped on Hard.

Then build them to do so. My leopards trip stuff constantly because of feats that let them use str and dex (both scale with mythical beast) to trip. Add in buff spells and it's an easy, massive bonus to trip rate.

[Edstyles]

Might want to give pets plus 1 int for more op stuff