Dealing with spell resistant enemies

[Z3R0]

I recently had a really tough fight where NONE of my party's spells worked on the opposing demons because of spell resistance. I think there was a small chance of success in most cases - like a 15 or higher on the caster's roll against a 26 SR - but every last one of them failed. This resulted in a TPK.

How do I deal with these enemies who are nearly immune to my casters' magic? It seems I have two choices - only take/memorize spells that are unaffected by SR, or build casters who focus exclusively on Spell Focus & Penetration feats. Both strategies seem pretty limiting and at least a bit dull. Any hints for dealing with this?

[Cpt_Weisemann]

I don't know which chapter you are on, but both spell penetration and mythic spell penetration feats are a must. Also there are items (Woljif sells 1 I think) which increases spell penetration. Angel has a reduce spell penetration and saving throw thing for his halo. But as a Wizard mc I struggled till the end of the act 2, later with both spell penetration feats + items it became better. I am playing angel and with halo I haven't seen any spell resist on act 4.

[Z3R0]

I'm currently in Act 2 exploring Areelu's Lab with a 9th level party consisting of a Magus MC, Ember, Seelah, Daeren, Woljif, Lann and a couple of animal companions. Every last critter in this forsaken place has an SR in the mid to high 20's.

[Elnidfse]

Outside of the MC (who can get access to merged spellbooks and other MC specific stuff) you'll get enough gear to make one(1) caster completely ignore enemy spell resistances. That's a goggle slot, a quarterstaff, a shirt, two rings, and an aura you get from an item the storyteller can make. Everybody else, unfortunately, is kicking rocks in the gear department.

Then there's the pen feats. You need pen + greater pen on all of your primary casters + Mythic spell pen. These feats will carry you out to the end of chapter 3 by themselves. After that, you ration gear out to your casters. Attempting to land spells on enemies from 3+ casters 100% of the time isn't really feasible in this game.
Some of them are going to have to miss some of the time.

[Z3R0]

That may well be the case, but right now early on in Act 2 all 3 casters between SR and saves are missing nearly 100% of the time. And melee is proving challenging too. I also ran into a Minotaur that was dishing out 120 HP per blow (NOT critical damage), enough to one shot any of my front liners. And this is on so-called Normal difficulty...

[T.W. Hamill]

Originally posted by Bananaman:

I recently had a really tough fight where NONE of my party's spells worked on the opposing demons because of spell resistance. I think there was a small chance of success in most cases - like a 15 or higher on the caster's roll against a 26 SR - but every last one of them failed. This resulted in a TPK.

Without knowing what level you are or the Act you're in, its hard to give you any advice.

How do I deal with these enemies who are nearly immune to my casters' magic? It seems I have two choices - only take/memorize spells that are unaffected by SR, or build casters who focus exclusively on Spell Focus & Penetration feats. Both strategies seem pretty limiting and at least a bit dull. Any hints for dealing with this?

So.. you already know both correct answers.

There are spells that avoid SR, and there are feats for offensive casters to take to help with Spell Penetration.

Both are 100%, absolutely intended features of the system. If you want to play an offensive caster, you have to invest in Spell Pen feats. Im not sure why you find it "pretty limiting" since it is 2 out 8-10 base feats most casters get (some get substantially more) and one Mythic Feat out of 5.

Also, there are a metric truckton of items that grant +SR and some racial and class abilities (as well as Teamwork feats) and even some Food.

Its not really that hard to have (in addition to the base CL bonus) +15-20 to SR.

By early chapter 4, my Nenio was:

+14 - Caster Level (party Level 15, Loremaster is bugged and not giving CL at level 1)
+2 - Spell Pen
+2 - Greater Spell Pen
+5 - Mythic Spell Pen (= Mythic Level)
+2 - Robe of Determination (also increases any fort save DCs by 2)
+2 - Gloves
+4 - Quarterstaff of the War Mage
+1 - Goggles of Pure Sight
+2 - Ring of Pyromania (only one, but you can equip two and the SR bonus stacks)
+2 - Allied Spellcaster (Teamwork Feat) (your other spellcasters should also have this, and/or a backline character - for me, Lann, as an Inquisitor, who gets free Teamwork feats, and is always in the back with the casters, has it).

Thats +36 to the roll, at level 14.

All of those items are available in Chapter 3, MOST of them from vendors (the staff isn't, but one that is +2 is), and your Mythic Spell Pen will be 4. Thats still...

Your Caster Level + 19, as of Act 3.. so somewhere between 29 and 32.

And that's not even all the items possible - there's a mask that is +3, another ring that is +2 (though like i noted above, you can stack the Ring of Pyromania if needed and there are at least 3 copies available from vendors), a cloak that is +2, and an additional +2 for a school... and food that gives +2 SR for 24 hours, and the Aura buff from the Covenant of the Inheritor belt buckle (thats from Act 1) that is another +2.

There's also items later that are better (a robe that gives you +4, a +6 int Head with a stacking (up to 4 times) +1 Pen buff that also applies a no-save debuff to the enemy that is =1 hit/damage/saves), and depending on your Mythic Path, additional potential bonuses. Elves get a natural +2 bonus, for instance, and can take a racially locked feat later for another +1 (and some other bonuses to other things)..... and you can take BOTH of those on a non-elf with Trickster, for instance.

End game, its not hard to be rocking a +45-50 to the roll.

[T.W. Hamill]

Originally posted by Bananaman:

I'm currently in Act 2 exploring Areelu's Lab with a 9th level party consisting of a Magus MC, Ember, Seelah, Daeren, Woljif, Lann and a couple of animal companions. Every last critter in this forsaken place has an SR in the mid to high 20's.

You're in Act 3 if you're exploring the lab. And you should be level 11ish at that point. How you even got out of Act 2 at level 9, i dunno, much less to the lab (which is usually 2/3 of the way through the chapter unless you rush right to it)... Unless you just skipped a ton of content.

[T.W. Hamill]

Originally posted by Elnidfse:

Outside of the MC (who can get access to merged spellbooks and other MC specific stuff) you'll get enough gear to make one(1) caster completely ignore enemy spell resistances. That's a goggle slot, a quarterstaff, a shirt, two rings, and an aura you get from an item the storyteller can make. Everybody else, unfortunately, is kicking rocks in the gear department.

Err... no.

There are two goggles, a mask, two different head items, two cloaks, three different robes, five staves (two are +2, two are +4, one is +3), three different rings, one of which has three copies, a set of gloves, two sets of light armor, a set of medium armor, and a set of bracers.

You can easily kit out 2-3 blasters with enough Spell Pen to get their spells through 75% of the time or more.

Not that you should be carrying 3 blasters in your party. Thats a way to get your face punched in.

Attempting to land spells on enemies from 3+ casters 100% of the time isn't really feasible in this game.
Some of them are going to have to miss some of the time.

Correct.

[SpiralRazor]

Casters absolutely must be focused on Spell penetration feats and items when you find them. This is the nature of the enemy in WoTR.

[Elnidfse]

Originally posted by T.W. Hamill:

There are two goggles, a mask, two different head items, two cloaks, three different robes, five staves (two are +2, two are +4, one is +3), three different rings, one of which has three copies, a set of gloves, two sets of light armor, a set of medium armor, and a set of bracers.
.

In chapter 3?
No.
The light armor is from chapter 4. The medium armor is a relic. Both require proficiency on a caster. Two staves are in chapter 5, one headband is in chapter 5, another head item is chapter 4, two of those robes are in chapter 4.

also don't forget the Covenant of the Inheritor which is +2 across the entire party.
That aside, your options until the flesh market are rather limited and you're not rocking multiple (see 3) people into the finale with +38. You get to have 1-2 casters who ignore SR in act 5. Everybody else is kicking rocks. 3/4ths casters be damned.

Edit: Also where are you getting three rings from?

[Red Phantom]

Anything that increases your caster level for the spell being cast also helps, correct?

[T.W. Hamill]

Originally posted by Elnidfse:

Originally posted by T.W. Hamill:

There are two goggles, a mask, two different head items, two cloaks, three different robes, five staves (two are +2, two are +4, one is +3), three different rings, one of which has three copies, a set of gloves, two sets of light armor, a set of medium armor, and a set of bracers.
.

In chapter 3?
No.

Since i never once implied that all of those items are in Chapter 3, i dont even know what you're on about.

I said they exist, to refute your claim that "there arent enough items for more than one caster".

There are.

The light armor is from chapter 4. The medium armor is a relic. Both require proficiency on a caster.

If only there were casters who could cast in armor... like.. say.. An Oracle. Or.. a Magus.... huh. Or any Divine caster. Its not just Arcane casters who have to stick their spells.

Two staves are in chapter 5, one headband is in chapter 5, another head item is chapter 4, two of those robes are in chapter 4.

also don't forget the Covenant of the Inheritor which is +2 across the entire party.
That aside, your options until the flesh market are rather limited

+4 staff in Act 3, two +2 rings in Act 3, +2 robe in Act 3, +2 gloves in act 3.. (everything but the staff from a vendor, but there is a +2 staff from a vendor) +1 goggles from a vendor in act 3... so.. lolwhut? Thats +11 from items alone... +2/2/3-4 from Spell Pen feats.. +2 from the belt buckle, +2 from Allied Spellcaster, potentially +2 from Elf Racial (if you chose elf or are using Ember)... so.. +22 to 24 vs SR's that average in the high 20s for most of Act 3 with a few outliers in the low 30s, meaning youll still stick your spells half the time (Blackwhatever, im lookin at you). Oh, and +2 from food if it super duper matters.

and you're not rocking multiple people into the finale with +38. You get to have 1-2 casters who ignore SR in act 5. Everybody else is kicking routes.

/thepriceiswrong sound.

Weird that my Daeren and Nenio are both rocking +40 or higher then ("you're not taking multiple casters into the endgame with +38" - well, i did).

And i still have half a dozen SP items hanging out in my chest.

to quote Doctor Cox from Scrubs (which is a terrible show but this quote/meme is amazing):

Wrong wrong wrong wrong,
wrong wrong wrong wrong....

You're wrong.

You're wrong.

You're wrong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPD5q6DC43M&ab_channel=BenjaminAlfveby

And beyond that, we're back to ... why in gods name would you try to put together a 4+ Arcane caster party. Thats just asking to have a miserable time.

[Elnidfse]

Originally posted by T.W. Hamill:

Originally posted by Elnidfse:

In chapter 3?
No.

Since i never once implied that all of those items are in Chapter 3, i dont even know what you're on about.
.

...?
Then why did you correct me? I'm clearly talking about chapter 3. I even directly mention Chapter 3

Originally posted by Elnidfse:

These feats will carry you out to the end of chapter 3 by themselves.

Originally posted by T.W. Hamill:

to refute your claim that "there arent enough items for more than one caster".

....?
What are you talking about?
Are you okay?

Originally posted by Elnidfse:

After that, you ration gear out to your casters. Attempting to land spells on enemies from 3+ casters 100% of the time isn't really feasible in this game.

3 is 3. 2 is more than one. Where did you get this "there aren't enough items for more than one caster" from?

Originally posted by T.W. Hamill:

Weird that my Daeren and Nenio are both rocking +40 or higher then

Oh 2 people. Less than 3
And also not relevant to the discussion.

Am I being trolled?

[T.W. Hamill]

Originally posted by Elnidfse:

Am I being trolled?

Only self-trolled and self-owned by the drivel you posted. I.E., you're an idiot.

Also, amusing that you skipped over the "and i have half a dozen more SPell Pen items in my chest" - enough to equip a third character easily. But hey, nothing else you said was right, and you already proved you couldn't read, so..

Par for the course i guess.

[Elnidfse]

Originally posted by T.W. Fragilepride:

Only self-trolled and self-owned by the drivel you posted. I.E., you're an idiot.

...? You alright there guy? Sorry for your glass ego.

Originally posted by T.W. Fragilepride:

Also, amusing that you skipped over the "and i have half a dozen more SPell Pen items in my chest" - enough to equip a third character easily. But hey, nothing else you said was right, and you already proved you couldn't read, so..

...? Ignoring the fact that you added that after I submitted my reply,
You mean this right here?

Originally posted by T.W. Fragilepride:

Weird that my Daeren and Nenio are both rocking +40 or higher then ("you're not taking multiple casters into the endgame with +38" - well, i did).

And i still have half a dozen SP items hanging out in my chest.

Where you're talking about items you have at end game. In a conversation centering around a guy in chapter 3. Again.
Are you tired? You're clearly cranky. I'll have to distance myself from this conversation. You're not too stable.

[revan1229]

Originally posted by Elnidfse:

Oh 2 people. Less than 3
And also not relevant to the discussion.

Am I being trolled?

At end game, base spell penetration would be 20. With Spell Pen, Greater Spell Pen, and Mythic Spell Pen feats, that goes up to 29. Allied Spellcaster is another 2, so 31. Ember is an elf, so she's potentially sitting at 34 (Elven Magic + Arcane Focus). Nenio comes with Spell Pen, so she's also already sitting at 33. Azata path gives +4 to everyone, but even without it, with the number of items increasing spell pen in this game it is easily feasible.