How some trickster mechanics work?

[Thorb]

Hi, I am planning a trickster mythic path run. I want to try pure 20 levels into Rogue - Knife Master, but I have few uncertanities how some mechanics work. Would be great if somebody who experienced this path could tell me.

1. Rogue gets in total 10 sneak attacks and Trickster also gets some. Do these stack above the limit of 10 or is the limit 10?

2. If I pick up the use magic device level 3 trick, I gain a wizard spellbook. Does this spell book have INT restrictions? Meaning, if I want to use level 9 spells, do I need 19 Intelligence? Does Intelligence provide more spell slots?

3. If I pick up the lore religion level 2 trick, I can choose a domain. What determines the level of abilities in the domain? My character level, mythic level, or something else? Basicially, I want to know if animal domain through level 2 trick + boon companion feat always results in getting a pet that is my character level.

[Kyo Gnome]

that is what the glory of re-specing is for. I believe you can go over your cap for sneak attack.

[T.W. Hamill]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Thorb:

Hi, I am planning a trickster mythic path run. I want to try pure 20 levels into Rogue - Knife Master, but I have few uncertanities how some mechanics work. Would be great if somebody who experienced this path could tell me.

1. Rogue gets in total 10 sneak attacks and Trickster also gets some. Do these stack above the limit of 10 or is the limit 10?

Trickster Stacks. My recommendation would be to NOT stick with Knife Master, though, as it gives you literally nothing worthwhile after level 4 (for Debilitating Injury; and honestly, if you care to take Mythic Finesse, it can be a 1-level wonder for the increased sneak attack die size). Knife Master 3 + anything else that gets full sneak attack is better. VIvisectionist is the best match, IMO, if you're looking to stick to combat, what with +6 dex mutagen, which gives +4 more natural armor, plus access to tons of self buffs.. and near crit and rogue attack immunity (Preserve Organs) and making potions used at your Viv level (which STACKS with the Mythic Trick for UMD rank 1, so its your Viv level + your mythic rank).

FWIW, my MC was Knife Master 4/Viv 12/Fighter 4 (to get the full 4 attacks) + Trickster.

2. If I pick up the use magic device level 3 trick, I gain a wizard spellbook. Does this spell book have INT restrictions? Meaning, if I want to use level 9 spells, do I need 19 Intelligence? Does Intelligence provide more spell slots?

It uses Int, yes you need the relevant score (though you can achieve it with items equipped), and yes it provides more spell slots (and the Abundant Casting abilities apply to this spell tower as well).

Its great for a non-casting class or a divine class to ALSO be a max level mage, though its best used for buffing and the like, because your DCs will SUCK. But, TBH, Knowledge: World is so much better (your companions (and you) totally ignoring any an all feat pre-reqs is just absolutely amazing) that i could never justfity trying to fit this in. You effectively only get one rank 3 Trick for now because you are Mythic 10 for all of about 90 seconds (I took Mobility for the ability to make a Mobility check -10 (which for me winds up being +41 vs any incoming attack roll as the DC) to completely avoid attacks, as the last boss likes to use ranged touch attacks and this basically makes you immune to them).

3. If I pick up the lore religion level 2 trick, I can choose a domain. What determines the level of abilities in the domain? My character level, mythic level, or something else? Basicially, I want to know if animal domain through level 2 trick + boon companion feat always results in getting a pet that is my character level.

This one i dont know as taking Domains wasnt even remotely interesting to me.

The CL for path-specific spells seems to be character level, so id imagine that the Domain stuff would be too?

[Thorb]

All right, I am gonna take some extra INT for lvl 3 trick. And maybe even use the +2 permanent INT book from Pulura's Fall secret room on main character.

And I will try the pet through lvl 2 trick and see how it goes. If I can't make my ideal trickster companion - a stealthy Mastodon, I will put up with the summoned Triceratops from Dressen siege. Of course, ideal pet from my aesthetics point of view, not through mechanics.

And it looks like keen kitsune is the best race for this, since I get +2 DEX and +2 INT. Furthemore, I confirmed that if I pick Master Shapeshifter mythic ability on mythic lvl 1, I can gain addition +4 STR, +4DEX and +4CON while transformed to human (that can be 100% uptime). Hopefully this behavior is intended and will not be patched halfway during my playthrough

Ok, onwards to the trickster playthrough I go.

[Blind Reverend]

Carefull with (persuasion 2), this sometimes affects friendly companions and their pets too.

[XartaX]

Why don't people like Slayer if you're gonna multi for sneak attacks. You get full attack bonus. You get study/quarry for extra attack bonus. You get an ass ton of feats (including unique ones like removing DR).

[Thorb]

Good Point - making the comparission now, but I think I will stick with Knife master and see how it goes.

Knife master:
+ has d8 instead of d6 dice on sneak attacks (kukri will be my weapon of choice)
side story - kukri critical breakout (with perception level 2 trick):
18-20 x2 - base
15-20 x2 - previous + improved critical
15-20 x3 - previous + improved critical (mythic)
13-20 x3 - previous + improved improved critical
11-20 x3 - previous + improved improved improved critical
11-20 x4 - previous + improved improved improved critical improved

+ has +2 base skill points per level, which I thought might be useful for trickster (maybe not that much now when I am picking up INT)
side story - tricks I plan to take:
perception 1 - perception 2 (to unlock special feats)
use magic device 1 - use magic device 2 - use magic device 3 (to unlock spellbook)
religion 1 - religion 2 (to unlock animal companion)
then whatever, maybe the mobility mentioned previoulsy

+ is fitted for DEX build - gets Weapon Finesse on lvl 1 and Finesse training on lvl 3 automatically. Slayer would have to pick up Finesse as a feat and the get Weapon Finesse (mythic) to achieve the same. And I probably really want to be DEX since Kitsune has +2 DEX and -2 STR (or +6 DEX and +2 STR with the Master Shapeshifter mythic ability applied)

+ debiliating injury (lvl 16) is up to -8 AC to enemy

+ has 10 sneak attacks instead of 6 on slayer

Slayer:
+ has overall much better attack bonus (BAB, Studied Target, Quarry), BAB even granting
extra 1 attack per turn going from expected 7 (3 mainhand + 3 offhand + 1 haste) on thief to 8. But since I plan to take the level 3 use magic device, I will have true strike (+20 attack bonus for 6 seconds) and Guarded Hearth from party (+ a lot as well). I hope charging my stealthy mastodon will mostly resolve fights in one turn, at least on Normal difficulty.

+ has come cool feats, but funny story, I can't fit enough to my rogue 20 already and I think all of them are good as well

[XartaX]

You can go knife master to get d8's and low level finesse feats then put the rest in slayer. Both can go dex builds.

Edit: If you wanna munchkin you can go 5 levels of knife master and 15 levels of LG deliverer. You will end up with 8 sneak attack die, but also 2d6 bonus divine damage to all enemies at least two steps from your own alignment (so pretty much all the enemies in the game). So pretty much the same damage and the starting feats/die from knife master, but with the slayers attack bonuses (only missing the last rank of study and quarry, but still a total of +6 from those two skills in addition to the naturally higher BAB).

[T.W. Hamill]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Thorb:

All right, I am gonna take some extra INT for lvl 3 trick. And maybe even use the +2 permanent INT book from Pulura's Fall secret room on main character.

Its not wasted. I found at least two more of those, im not sure where (and they dont stack, i tried to drop all three on Nenio and it wouldnt let me). Best for the MC is the potion you can get from a crusade event that is +2 all stats (and does not stack with the manuals AFAIR)

Again, though, the problem is, if you do this in time to make it even remotely worthwhile (Mythic 7), you aren't getting Knowledge: World Rank 3, which is just -immense- (especially coupled with the Improved Improved Critical line from Perception Rank 2)

And I will try the pet through lvl 2 trick and see how it goes. If I can't make my ideal trickster companion - a stealthy Mastodon, I will put up with the summoned Triceratops from Dressen siege. Of course, ideal pet from my aesthetics point of view, not through mechanics.

And it looks like keen kitsune is the best race for this, since I get +2 DEX and +2 INT. Furthemore, I confirmed that if I pick Master Shapeshifter mythic ability on mythic lvl 1, I can gain addition +4 STR, +4DEX and +4CON while transformed to human (that can be 100% uptime). Hopefully this behavior is intended and will not be patched halfway during my playthrough :Tio:

Ok, onwards to the trickster playthrough I go.

Im pretty sure its intended. I stuck with human since you dont really need the Int - you're going to want 14 Int anyway for skill points and can get higher access to spells through +int items (there are +6 and +8 items and little else to put on the head slot for a non-tank) - but i can see the appeal of another 4 Dex, i guess. (You already get absolutely absurd amounts of dex if you go with Vivisectionist anyway - +6 from the Mutagen and then +6 more from the Microscopic Proportions Trickster Mythic Spell) Human also gets the additional feat and skill point per level.

[T.W. Hamill]

Początkowo opublikowane przez XartaX:

You can go knife master to get d8's and low level finesse feats then put the rest in slayer. Both can go dex builds.

Edit: If you wanna munchkin you can go 5 levels of knife master and 15 levels of LG deliverer. You will end up with 8 sneak attack die, but also 2d6 bonus divine damage to all enemies at least two steps from your own alignment (so pretty much all the enemies in the game).

Not as a Trickster you cant, because you cannot be LG. You have to be CE, CN, or CG. And the OP is specifically going Trickster.

So pretty much the same damage and the starting feats/die from knife master, but with the slayers attack bonuses (only missing the last rank of study and quarry, but still a total of +6 from those two skills in addition to the naturally higher BAB).

[XartaX]

Początkowo opublikowane przez T.W. Hamill:

Początkowo opublikowane przez XartaX:

You can go knife master to get d8's and low level finesse feats then put the rest in slayer. Both can go dex builds.

Edit: If you wanna munchkin you can go 5 levels of knife master and 15 levels of LG deliverer. You will end up with 8 sneak attack die, but also 2d6 bonus divine damage to all enemies at least two steps from your own alignment (so pretty much all the enemies in the game).

Not as a Trickster you cant, because you cannot be LG. You have to be CE, CN, or CG. And the OP is specifically going Trickster.

So pretty much the same damage and the starting feats/die from knife master, but with the slayers attack bonuses (only missing the last rank of study and quarry, but still a total of +6 from those two skills in addition to the naturally higher BAB).

Yeah I wasn't referring to trickster. You can accomplish the same thing as CG, though. CE is two steps removed from CG too, so you should be fine.