Claw/Claw/Bite/Bite/Horn build idea/discussion

[Mike]

I made a character with these 5 attacks at level 5, but there are a few different ways to get there. I also have around 3d6 sneak attack to help make the hits really hurt.

Here is the basic idea, details are flexible:

Start with Stigmatized witch
level 1: hex = claws (gives 2 attacks at full attack bonus)
level 1: wolf face as your stigma (gives a full attack bite)
level 1: motherless tiefling (gives a full attack bite)
level 1: 20 str. your race gives +2 str.

You are already super strong, with 4 attacks at full bab and dealing +5 damage. (full str damage on all 4)
I found amulet of might fists which gives +2 attack and damage to all these.
Found a library book which gives +1 to hit with all of these.
I also have a mystery +1 damage to all these. (sorry can't see what it is from in the UI)
I use chainmail of comraderie which gives +4 more damage when flanking.

Level 5: Close to the abyss mythic path (gives a bite at -5 attack)
Level 5: Brutality incarnate (all these attacks ignore DR) (or use covenant of the inheriter in place of this for a few levels)

At level 5 I am 5 attacks with around 1d6 + 10 damage +3d6 sneak attack

The big question is what classes do you take after level 1?


IDEA 1:
Rowdy rogue is a good choice because you get a bunch of sneak attack dice for all your attacks. More HP and BAB than witch.

The second level of stigmatized witch gives you iceplant hex for +4 AC. pretty good.

If you mix brutal rogue and witch for about 6 levels you can swap to arcane trickster and keep your sneak attack dice going and full arcane spell progression.

You can take the feat for extra sneak dice and the mythic feat that matches. Giving a ton of damage.

You lose 1 level of arcane casting if you mix 1 brutal rogue level and 5 witch levels.

I use the arcane casting mostly to heal bot out of combat, but it is spontaneous so you can be creative mid combat if needed. Your dex is low which implies medium armor but that doesn't go well with arcane casting. Chainmail of comraderie is 20% spell failure unless you take a feat for it.


IDEA 2:
Instead of witch and rogue just go shadow shaman.
Shadow shaman gives you hexes like claws and iceplant that you need. You still go motherless tiefling for the bite and the 20 str.
Shadow shaman gets more BAB and more HP than witches.
Shadow shaman gets free sneak attack dice built into the class at reduced progression speed.
Shadow shaman uses wisdom for casting instead of cha which is nice for motherless tiefling (+2 str/wis)
Shaman can cast in armor and get medium armor prof. You could even upgrade to heavy armor and take 10 dex.

The main con of shadow shaman is he doesn't get the wolf face curse. You could mix 1 level of oracle in for the wolf bite. (Maybe you can just take the wolf curse as a mythic feat? not sure)

IDEA 3:
Take the 1 level of stigmatized witch as per Idea 1. but then go some kind of fighter instead of sneak attack class. More BAB and HP and feats and weapon spec. Not sure high good this is because I didn't try it out in more detail. Not sure what the best fighter type class is. Rager?

Idea 4:
Your pro tips here pls.

[dszombiex]

You can get a 3rd full attack bonus with a claw via 1 Sohei and Natural Weapon training from Mutation Warrior at level 5 to be able to flurry with claws, then if you can spare another 2 levels you will get another bite attack from Feral Mutagen.

[Mike]

Thanks, it looks like if you go alchemist 2 or mutation warrior 7 you can get claw/claw/bite. (bites all stack, claws don't)

It looks like mutagens only last 10 minutes or so though. What is the best way to increase that?


1 stigmatized witch 1 for nails (weak claws but always on) or iceplant (4 ac) also qualified us for dragon disciple, also get knowledge arcana 5)
1 oracle (lone strider): wolf face bite
1 sohei monk (flurry with claws, 3rd claw when full attacking)
3 vivisectionist: mutagen claw/claw/bite + 2d6 sneak attack. and +str mutagen (claws last 30 min)
2 Dragon disciple: bite and +2 str

demon mythic: bite, and mythic your natural attacks ignore DR.
race: motherless tiefling: bite

This gives you 3 claws, 4 bites and a horn each turn. (8 attacks at level 8)
You can get weapon focus claw or bite or both. You do a ton of damage because you are at around 30 str at this point and all of them get full str bonus except the horns. You also have 2d6 sneak attack plus whatever sneak dice you add from feats.

You can continue levelling in dragon disciple or vivisectionist for more sneak dice.

[Kasa]

Level 11 wizard
Dragon form spell

bite, claws , claws , wing, wing, tail slap + full spell casting abilities, SR, and Fear effect.

Go transmutation specialist and take mythic master shapeshifter and have fun.

[glenn3e]

Slightly offtopic, but does the Hex that gives claws and bites give extra attacks to my mounts and is it worth getting?

[djinnxy]

You can get bites and claws from barb beast totems (both,) motherless tiefling (bite,) mutagens (both,) h.orc with a feat (tusks,) draconic bloodrager lines (claws), devil or demon bloodline? claw, serpentine bloodline bite, demon mythic (gore and claws,) wolf face stigma (bite,) hex (as you mentioned.)

That's off the top of my head. No doubt there's something I missed. Some things aren't the same as kingmaker with CotW. It was much easier to exploit. I suggest a Charisma
Dex build with conrnugan and add as much elemental and sneak damage as you can. Also trip/cleave stuff works well with reach from serpentine added to epic proportions or just enlarge if that's all you have access to. You'll want to go AoO with charisma dex cornugan. Keep greater invis up as much as possible.

There's also a pair of gloves in game that turn fists into claw attacks.

[Fluff]

https://youtu.be/9akaQGmw-no

- here's what it becomes. Can be upgraded to the latest game version. But work even like that. Just finished a run with non-MC mutant. 11-12 attacks per turn.

[Sotanaht]

Originally posted by Mike D:

It looks like mutagens only last 10 minutes or so though. What is the best way to increase that?

Mutagens are 10 minutes per level. It's only really an issue for 1 level dips, 30 minutes may as well be permanent until travel/rest. Greater Enduring Spells (mythic ability) works on mutagens anyway, so you can have a 24 hour duration with that even as a level 1 dip.

[Mike]

Thanks I am going to add greater enduring spells ASAP.

[I gurgle for Nurgle]

Kitsune gets a free bite attack. Serpentine sorc gets several bites per day. Barbarians also do get bites. Demon something skald or something like that get's free bite for his rage. Close to abyss gives another natural attack. I think there's some item, that gives free gore.
I'd argue motherless tiefling is not the best class to spec into hungry build. Kitsune is, and the reason is master shapeshifter mythic ability (unless it was nerfed this week and I somehow missed it). Since kitsune can transform naturally, you can get all benefits form MS. And that's +4 to all physical stats. That will be something like 8str/primary dex/secondary cha, oracle1/scaled fist 1/primalist(serpent)/ then vivi/rogue/shaman/whatever. I wonder, if serpent sorc fangs are counted as claws or not. Get finesse, get TWF if fangs stack. Pick MS, archmage, limitless rage, brutality as mythics. Nvm, just remembered kitsune's supposed to receive MS buffs in human form, meaning one less bite attack. Need to test it though.

[Mike]

Has anyone tested if Kitsune plus mythic shapeshifter actually gets +4 stats?
Seems really strong, kinda silly.

[Donnicton]

Originally posted by Mike D:

Has anyone tested if Kitsune plus mythic shapeshifter actually gets +4 stats?
Seems really strong, kinda silly.

They do but you can't use Kitsune bite in human form so it's pointless. You have to pick between the Kitsune bite and +4 to your stats.

[Herr Glaube]

At least they fixed that bug that kept giving you extra bites in Kingmaker... and there i was wondering why my Sorc/DD was spazzing out and everything near him was dropping dead. Turns out i somehow accumulated over 100 bite attacks.

[I gurgle for Nurgle]

Originally posted by Donnicton:

Originally posted by Mike D:

Has anyone tested if Kitsune plus mythic shapeshifter actually gets +4 stats?
Seems really strong, kinda silly.

They do but you can't use Kitsune bite in human form so it's pointless. You have to pick between the Kitsune bite and +4 to your stats.

There's also Shroud of Eternal Hunger relic shirt. It gives +4 to attack/damage made with limbs while polymorphed. And there's shapeshifter helm with +2 AC in wild shape, though I have no idea if it works with kitsune's ability.

[Andante]

Originally posted by Mike D:

Thanks, it looks like if you go alchemist 2 or mutation warrior 7 you can get claw/claw/bite. (bites all stack, claws don't)

It looks like mutagens only last 10 minutes or so though. What is the best way to increase that?


1 stigmatized witch 1 for nails (weak claws but always on) or iceplant (4 ac) also qualified us for dragon disciple, also get knowledge arcana 5)
1 oracle (lone strider): wolf face bite
1 sohei monk (flurry with claws, 3rd claw when full attacking)
3 vivisectionist: mutagen claw/claw/bite + 2d6 sneak attack. and +str mutagen (claws last 30 min)
2 Dragon disciple: bite and +2 str

demon mythic: bite, and mythic your natural attacks ignore DR.
race: motherless tiefling: bite

This gives you 3 claws, 4 bites and a horn each turn. (8 attacks at level 8)
You can get weapon focus claw or bite or both. You do a ton of damage because you are at around 30 str at this point and all of them get full str bonus except the horns. You also have 2d6 sneak attack plus whatever sneak dice you add from feats.

You can continue levelling in dragon disciple or vivisectionist for more sneak dice.

mutagens last 10 minutes PER level so if its a few level dip, its gonna last all dungeon