[BUG] Persistent Spell Metamagic not being allowed to be applied to some spells

[Kasa]

According to the Metamagic:

Persistent Spell (Metamagic) You can modify a spell to become more tenacious when its targets resist its effect.

Benefit: Whenever a creature targeted by a persistent spell or within its area succeeds on its saving throw against the spell, it must make another saving throw against the effect. If a creature fails this second saving throw, it suffers the full effects of the spell, as if it had failed its first saving throw.

Level Increase: +2 (a persistent spell uses up a spell slot two levels higher than the spell’s actual level.)


Specifically: "or within its area"

For some reason you can't use it for spells like grease even though by raw you can.

Works on similar spell Web and hungry pit, but not on the similar spell acid or spiked pit.

For people who think think the metamagic only works on the initial save:

https://i.ibb.co/f0yzJRf/Web-Persistant-Spell.jpg

[Fluff]

Works with Slow spell e.g

[Kasa]

Which again why it's bugged, Persistent Spell is suppose to work ANY spell that has a save and spells that last a number of rounds like grease and acid fog.

At this moment it's only working with spells with instant effects. Or for some odd reason spells like hold person.

Works with hungry pit but not acid pit wtf?

It also works on web, truly what the actual ♥♥♥♥.

[Morgian]

No, the feat works only with the initial save as in p&p. All secondary saves are unaffected.

[Kasa]

Originally posted by Morgian:

No, the feat works only with the initial save as in p&p. All secondary saves are unaffected.

Whenever a creature targeted by a persistent spell or within its area succeeds on its saving throw against the spell, it must make another saving throw against the effect.

Check 1: Is the creature targeted by, or within the area of the persistent spell?

Check 2: Did the creature succeed on its saving throw against the spell?

If the answer to both of those is 'yes' then the creature must save again.

So, for example, your player cast a persistent Stinking Cloud, and the enemy orc is within the area of the spell. The orc must succeed at a Fort save or become nauseated. Lets say he succeeds at that save. He's within the area of the spell, and he made his save against the spell, so that means he must attempt to save again. If he fails that second save, he becomes nauseated. That condition will last for as long as he remains in the cloud, and for 1d4+1 rounds after he leaves it, and he gets no further saves.

Another example, say he casts persistent Hold Person. The orc is targeted by the spell, and must attempt a Will save or be paralyzed. If the orc succeeds on the save, then since he's targeted by the spell and made a successful save, he must attempt another save, if he fails that second save, he's paralyzed. Now, each round on his turn, he may attempt a new saving throw to end the effect. He was still targeted by the spell, so if he does successfully save, he meets both requirements so he must make another save afterwards. If he fails the second save, he stays paralyzed. If he makes both saves, then he ends the effect and the spell is done.

The key phrase regarding subsequent saves is, "Whenever a creature targeted by a persistent spell". "WHENEVER" is synonymous with "At any time".

If you interchange the phrasing with synonymous wording, it's more clear: "At any time, a creature targeted by a persistent spell or within its area succeeds on its saving throw against the spell, it must make another saving throw against the effect.


And that aside the game lets you applying to to hungry pit but not acid pit, web but not grease.

Like I said what the actual ♥♥♥♥?

[Takichi]

Originally posted by Kasa:

Originally posted by Morgian:

No, the feat works only with the initial save as in p&p. All secondary saves are unaffected.

Whenever a creature targeted by a persistent spell or within its area succeeds on its saving throw against the spell, it must make another saving throw against the effect.

Check 1: Is the creature targeted by, or within the area of the persistent spell?

Check 2: Did the creature succeed on its saving throw against the spell?

If the answer to both of those is 'yes' then the creature must save again.

So, for example, your player cast a persistent Stinking Cloud, and the enemy orc is within the area of the spell. The orc must succeed at a Fort save or become nauseated. Lets say he succeeds at that save. He's within the area of the spell, and he made his save against the spell, so that means he must attempt to save again. If he fails that second save, he becomes nauseated. That condition will last for as long as he remains in the cloud, and for 1d4+1 rounds after he leaves it, and he gets no further saves.

Another example, say he casts persistent Hold Person. The orc is targeted by the spell, and must attempt a Will save or be paralyzed. If the orc succeeds on the save, then since he's targeted by the spell and made a successful save, he must attempt another save, if he fails that second save, he's paralyzed. Now, each round on his turn, he may attempt a new saving throw to end the effect. He was still targeted by the spell, so if he does successfully save, he meets both requirements so he must make another save afterwards. If he fails the second save, he stays paralyzed. If he makes both saves, then he ends the effect and the spell is done.


And that aside the game lets you applying to to hungry pit but not acid pit, web but not grease.

Like I said what the actual ♥♥♥♥?

That is Simply Wrong ;) It would only Work on the First Saving Throw at the Cast of the Cloud Spell. Everything afterwars is unchanged by this Metamagic ;) Thats what "Whenever a creature targeted by a persistent spell or within its area succeeds on its saving throw against the spell, it must make another saving throw against the effect." meins.

Theres no " , " so its not 2 seperate Effects its ONE Condition. You target only on Cast, therefore it only applies on Spells at the Cast, the Moment the Spell is Casted. If the Spell isnt a Target or has an AOE Effect it effects everyone in THIS Specific Moment, not any further or later after that.

[Kasa]

@Takich

When I use it with the web spell it functioned EXACTLY how I describe.

Think what ever you want and play it hover ever you want it at your table that's not the point of this post.

The point of this post is that the game is not letting the metamagic be applied to grease but you can apply it a similar spell Web.

You can apply it to Hungry put but not the similar spell spiked pit.

Regardless if the meta magic FUNCTIONS by w/e rules they want to use it's still not letting me apply the meta magic when you can apply it to other spells that it doesn't work with.

For example you can apply SELECTIVE SPELL to GREASE but it doesn't work (and shouldn't by the way the description is written) and yet you can still apply it.

[Kasa]

Posted an image link in the topic post so hopefully people won't start arguing about the ruling of this spell.

[Fluff]

Ye i understand you, i just wrote an example of what spell i was using - it works for that specific spell. Web, as you wrote - also. I'm pretty sure there are many spells that don't work because the game is buggy and many things don't work or work partially or not like written.

But not much we can do except wait like half a year or a year to fix them all. You can add [BUG] in the topic name like written here https://steamcommunity.com/app/1184370/discussions/0/3113648183778953547/ . Like this for example https://steamcommunity.com/app/1184370/discussions/0/5086242673970896320/ I hope it gives devs some more attention to such topics and not just written "for fun".

Persistent is very nice metamagic but with enemies' DC being somewhere in the sky - not the most popular currently. So devs probably will fix it later, not in first months even.

F

[Kasa]

TT_TT
Thanks Tusk_Luv, I'm just fed up with so much broken stuff in a 60$ CAD game.