20 levels in wizard from a single trickster feat..?

[Gracey Face]

I was watching a build video someone else linked in another thread;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fwvh9mrYLTE

One of the feats, Use Magic Device lvl 3, just seems to give you 20 free levels in wizard.

I am curious if this is genuinely what it does, as that seems broken as all hell.

[Mauman]

YUP.

I'm aiming for that.

It doesn't give you 20 levels of wizard though. It gives you a wizard spellbook and caster level equal to your current character level. So no specialization, no feats, just the spells.

Also, if you weren't a spellcaster to begin with, you're not likely going to have an amazing int or feats to get over spell resistance so your DC will be crap and your spells will be easily resisted.

It's more of a sidegrade that lets you do things like cast shield on your big beefy MC, or greater false life, or spread some buffs around....that sort of thing.

As for being broken....have you SEEN the ♥♥♥♥ that Liches/Angels/Azata/etc get? Just about everything in Mythic is purposely op. We're supposed to fight ♥♥♥♥ like the playful darkness :P

[Elnidfse]

Originally posted by Gracey Face:

I was watching a build video someone else linked in another thread;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fwvh9mrYLTE

One of the feats, Use Magic Device lvl 3, just seems to give you 20 free levels in wizard.

I am curious if this is genuinely what it does, as that seems broken as all hell.

If gives you the full spell book and your CL but it should be noted that unless you take the feats for it, you're going to have a real hard time penetrating SR or landing your DCs.
It's great regardless since you can easily make up for the feat tax.

[Morgian]

You get only two of the trickster rank 3 abilities, one of them late and one of them almost at the end of the game.
But look at the ability closely and it isn't all that broken:
- if you are already an arcane caster you get nothing new
- if you are a divine caster, let's hope you have high INT, too - you need it to cast and it is your DC; you may have magic feats, but divine casters get practically no bonus feats
- if you are something else, you still need high INT; and you won't have any relevant feats at all - bonus feats are typically limited to combat feats
- I have not tested it, but one thing comes to mind: spellcasting failure due to armor and shields. I bet you still have that. And if you are already a mage armor user, we are back to point 1: you already are a mage, so what?

So what you get is a second-class caster due to the lack of the primary stat and supporting feats. You most likely spent your mythic abilities elsewhere, too, for the first 7 ranks.

[Frozen Dervish]

That's exactly what it does. Though I don't know if it gives you a caster level or not.

[Gracey Face]

Originally posted by Elnidfse:

but it should be noted that unless you take the feats for it, you're going to have a real hard time penetrating SR or landing your DCs.

Even if you do take feats to do such you'll still almost never overcome SR or beat the guys with 30+ saves so I don't really see the issue :D

[Gracey Face]

Originally posted by Morgian:

So what you get is a second-class caster due to the lack of the primary stat and supporting feats. You most likely spent your mythic abilities elsewhere, too, for the first 7 ranks.

You know there's a swarm of spells that are amazing on prettymuch any class right, that are difficult to get, such as sense vitals, mirror?

I mean ♥♥♥♥ sense vitals alone is basically 10 extra levels of rogue, and on an actual rogue that'd be pretty neat.

[Gracey Face]

♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, is it possible to become un-undead? I feel like I got gipped.

[Mauman]

Originally posted by Gracey Face:

Originally posted by Morgian:

So what you get is a second-class caster due to the lack of the primary stat and supporting feats. You most likely spent your mythic abilities elsewhere, too, for the first 7 ranks.

You know there's a swarm of spells that are amazing on prettymuch any class right, that are difficult to get, such as sense vitals, mirror?

I mean ♥♥♥♥ sense vitals alone is basically 10 extra levels of rogue, and on an actual rogue that'd be pretty neat.

I'm looking forward to seeing if sense vitals works with my rowdy rogue.

<drool>

[Elnidfse]

Originally posted by Gracey Face:

Originally posted by Elnidfse:

but it should be noted that unless you take the feats for it, you're going to have a real hard time penetrating SR or landing your DCs.

Even if you do take feats to do such you'll still almost never overcome SR or beat the guys with 30+ saves so I don't really see the issue :D

Not entiretly true. My Nenio in chapter 5 casts weird with DC's of 42 without any other party member contribution.

[Gracey Face]

Originally posted by Elnidfse:

Not entiretly true. My Nenio in chapter 5 casts weird with DC's of 42 without any other party member contribution.

Considering that random mobs in chapter 3 have saves in the 20-30 range, I am curious what value a DC of 42 has. I have a DC of up to 30 in chapter 3 and it's basically worthless.

[Morgian]

He forgot to mention their spell resistance :)
Practically most magic has little effect due to SR and saves. I have given Nenio all relevant feats and she still struggles with SR, although not as much as in act 3. The trickster persuasion effect is way more powerful than all control spells combined.

[Gracey Face]

Originally posted by Morgian:

He forgot to mention their spell resistance :)
Practically most magic has little effect due to SR and saves. I have given Nenio all relevant feats and she still struggles with SR, although not as much as in act 3. The trickster persuasion effect is way more powerful than all control spells combined.

Same experience, but worse for me. I purposefully made my whole party casters, rather than the wiz/cleric/rogue/3x2hander party that I normally use in D&D ruleset games.

In the game where everything has ridiculous saves and ridiculous spell resist.

Wet noodling my way through the campaign!

[Elnidfse]

Originally posted by Gracey Face:

Originally posted by Elnidfse:

Not entiretly true. My Nenio in chapter 5 casts weird with DC's of 42 without any other party member contribution.

Considering that random mobs in chapter 3 have saves in the 20-30 range, I am curious what value a DC of 42 has. I have a DC of up to 30 in chapter 3 and it's basically worthless.

It varies. Like everything else enemy saves are too high so she can't land anything on anything that matters when endgame finally comes around. But even then it's still good enough to clean a room of trash

[JustSmile]

You know what is more fun? Trick of Fate. Y'now how you got all your menial workers equipped with all those improved crit feats, increasing their crit modifier way up? How would you like to always roll 20s for three rounds? I don't think there's a single enemy in the game capable of surviving Aruesh slamming 6 critical shots with her 15-20x5 longbow in their face.

[Zarquon]

trickster monk tho? all 4 versions of genekind would be nice. displacement etc
would mage armour negate their wisdom to AC buff?