tips on seelah.

[Emphasized]

So i rlly want to make this lady a tank. But she jsut continually gets wrecked by anything but thrashmobs. Atm she's level 8, 35 AC Base and i can get her up to about 41ish, and then adding blur. But she just gets wrecked, every.single.bossfight. Might as well not bother having her as a tank. What am i doing wrong?

I leveled her as full pally for a while, and that didnt seem to work too well. Now she's a Pally2/Oracle6.

[hsojrue]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Frozen Dervish:

Początkowo opublikowane przez hsojrue:

For Paladins it mostly has to do with the fact that they are MAD (Multi-Attribute Dependent) So a Rogue or a Fighter is only really dependent on one attribute and are generally better if you really want to multiclass. Paladins also just aren't popular in general in tabletop versions of pathfinder and D&D, and they usually end up on the bottom in class surveys
Making up for the horrible builds I totally get, I respec pretty much all the npc's as soon as I can because their builds are really sub optimal

MAD makes them better for multi-classing as they can actually make use of their wide spread. They are lesser for min-maxing.

It can be beneficial but you're also never going to be as good as a class that is focused. So you'll have more flexibility and can build on them but it's not going to be as good at that one thing as single class build. But that's more a problem on my side haha

[Chiatroll]

Honestly I don't think she starts in a good place for tanking. her Dex is to low. Heavy armor isn't useful as backwards as that is.

I made her a skald to use her high charisma. She also works as a bard.

Mythic extra smiting power keeps her single paladin level from being dead cause it gives her a pile of smites based on that charisma.

[DarkOne]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Nifty:

For unfair I'm doing
1 Paladin
1 Witch
1 TSS
7 Dirge Bard
5 Free Booter

For her survival I just give her greater invisibility, buff her the ♥♥♥♥ up with everything & mirror image, she has last stand too just in case. Her only use is to stay alive as long as possible why throwing mark on everything. She sits at 46 base AC before any buffs are thrown on her.
I'm unsure what to put her last levels in.

What's your party composition ? Did you level up freebooter first ?

[Edstyles]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Emphasized:

So i rlly want to make this lady a tank. But she jsut continually gets wrecked by anything but thrashmobs. Atm she's level 8, 35 AC Base and i can get her up to about 41ish, and then adding blur. But she just gets wrecked, every.single.bossfight. Might as well not bother having her as a tank. What am i doing wrong?

I leveled her as full pally for a while, and that didnt seem to work too well. Now she's a Pally2/Oracle6.

Problem with paladins . They get no extra feats so you rely on Smite to some work. I would personally multiclass her to get some very much needed feats . For instance team feats can be quite powerful as they stack . So shield team feat could potentially give you alot of ac.

Abit obvious but you should also have more than 1 frontline

[Raigavin]

Methods in no particular order

• https://www.neoseeker.com/pathfinder-wrath-of-the-righteous/builds/Seelah
  
• https://fextralife.com/seelah-pathfinder-wrath-of-the-righteous-companion-build-guide/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3PXC-2goU4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q83NGOpgITc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEtVAf3rUug

[Grymm]

Have Ember "Protective Luck" then Cackle and charge Seelah in to start a fight.
Move Ember in during Surprise round, so her Cackle will hit Seelah.
Use Embers Action to apply more Hexes (Evil Eye is Great), and her Move action to refresh them all.
Evil Eye at 8 Witch is -4 to Attack, AC, Save. Can't be spell resisted, and as long as you are Cackling each round even if an enemy makes the Save, it lasts for 1 Round, which Cackle turns to 2... so even with every Save made, you can keep applying and refreshing more.

[Marcus Butthurticus]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Andante:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Marcus Butthurticus:

Owlcat do love to tilt it in enemies favour in the absurd.

The guy has no idea what he is talking about. Camelia can tank just fine on core staying shaman the whole way no problem if you know how to build her right

Also there is a difference between power gaming and being informed. People who complained about the game are just flat out ignorant. They fall back to the good old "but muh rp" excuse when it's clear as day they either don't know how to read or they know how to read skill/spell descriptions but are too dimwitted to know what it means.

I would say the game do have tilted balance compared to others in the isometric genre. BG1 and PoE is in my eyes MUCH easier games on normal. For example. But yes, informed helps of course. But sometimes I think it would be much easier (and more boring) to just build a stupidly strong build and wack ♥♥♥♥. I seen some of those builds mixing classes out the ass. For crazy multiclasses. But its a fine balance between informed and powergaming. SO MANY spells, and im a bit lazy but I love the variety available. Some I never even use. I take this over mega streamlined boring action RPGs.

[solosochi]

Seelah
01 Paladin Default(Unfortunataly can't remove thes)
02 Stigmatized Witch(Ice blossome 2ac +2 from the ring+1 from lizard familiar Total of 5)
Wolf hex for +1 Free Bite Attack thet will grow all game from 1d4, 1d8 up to 2d6 at lv15.
03 Stigmatized Witch weapon proficiency-> Longsword
04 Stigmatized Witch
05 Stigmatized Witch, Dazzling Display

Next 4 levels of Dragon disciple gives her +4str and +2 more Natural AC

06 Dragon disciple (Golden Dragon) Fire spells are good so why not :)
At thes point you can take Mific Harmless Extra Oracle's Curse -> Powerless Prophecy
For Uncanny dodge, improved uncanny dodge at lv 10 and
at 15th level, you gain a +4 insight bonus on all your saving throws and to your AC during surprise rounds and when you are otherwise unaware of an attack.
After thes Seelah realy start to get hit much less...
07 Dragon disciple, Spell penetration + Heavy Strike(Free from Dragon Bloodline)
08 Dragon disciple
09 Dragon disciple, Mistic armor

10 Hellcnight Signifer (Because why not :)
11 Hellcnight Signifer, Cornugon Smash (-2 for the enimy to hit you) + Mistic armour+(Free)
12 Hellcnight Signifer (Armor mastery +1 dex Ac bonus +5% Cast in armor)Free
13 Hellcnight Signifer, Shatter Defenses
14 Hellcnight Signifer
15 Hellcnight Signifer, Spell penetration+
16 Hellcnight Signifer
17 Hellcnight Signifer, (Any Fit) +Armor mastery +1 dex Ac bonus +5% Cast in armor(Free)
18 Hellcnight Signifer
19 Hellcnight Signifer, (Any Fit)
20 Stigmatized Witch

And yes you can take a level of Scaled Fist monk for the crane stile at level 3
If you absolutly won't to. But in thet case she can't cast lv 9 witch spells ever.

40 Ac + at lv 7. + Uncanny dodge and improved uncanny dodge at lv 10
Even More under Cat's Grace and Reduce Person

[Daleorn]

If you run both Ember and Camellia witch hexes stack. So if you cast 2 protective lucks enemies have to roll 3 times and take the worst roll, you can double evil eye to drop the selected stat by 8. So with luck and lowering the AB on those high level enemies, my tank hardly gets touched.

[[Heretic]Rivga]

Remember crane style, costs a good few feats but is well worth it. There are always enemies that can hit almost any AC so look for the likes of mirror image or blur to mitigate this.

All your best AC equipment should go to her, my main takes second seat to ensuring my tank is well equipped, a lot of people just fully equip there main first.

If things get really bad then the difficulty level is too much for you so lower it.

[solosochi]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Th0rn:

If you run both Ember and Camellia witch hexes stack. So if you cast 2 protective lucks enemies have to roll 3 times and take the worst roll, you can double evil eye to drop the selected stat by 8. So with luck and lowering the AB on those high level enemies, my tank hardly gets touched.

Evil eye + Laughter(on free action) :)
Yet prefere Ember as a Scald.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhCB7ALTI_o

[solosochi]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Th0rn:

If you run both Ember and Camellia witch hexes stack. So if you cast 2 protective lucks enemies have to roll 3 times and take the worst roll, you can double evil eye to drop the selected stat by 8. So with luck and lowering the AB on those high level enemies, my tank hardly gets touched.

Camellia is the best as Winter Witch

01 Spirit Hunter
02 Spirit Hunter Favorit Magic Evocation, Higtened spell
03 Spirit Hunter
04 Spirit Hunter Spell Penetration
05 Spirit Hunter

06 Crossblooded Sorcerer, Spell Penetration+
To take Elemental Bloodline - Water for (Arcane Water) So all elemental damage will be frost. And another bloodline Draconic Bloodline - Silver just for +1 to cold spells.

At thes point on lv 7 take Mythic Second Spirit -> Frost.
Now you can actualy make Cammellia Winter Witch at level 7

Next Mythic fit -> Convert fit in to Mythic ability -> Superiority of element -> Frost
From thes point you can penetrate anythin :)
And Camellia did not need rapier or any other weapon at all.
You can just put her lv3 summon lightning spell on auto.
And from lv5 Call Lightning Storm on Auto. Convert all to frost.. (Arcane Water from Sorc)
Use Hightened spell for all levels thet did not have Call Lightning.

[Daleorn]

Początkowo opublikowane przez solosochi:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Th0rn:

If you run both Ember and Camellia witch hexes stack. So if you cast 2 protective lucks enemies have to roll 3 times and take the worst roll, you can double evil eye to drop the selected stat by 8. So with luck and lowering the AB on those high level enemies, my tank hardly gets touched.

Camellia is the best as Winter Witch

01 Spirit Hunter
02 Spirit Hunter Favorit Magic Evocation, Higtened spell
03 Spirit Hunter
04 Spirit Hunter Spell Penetration
05 Spirit Hunter

06 Crossblooded Sorcerer, Spell Penetration+
To take Elemental Bloodline - Water for (Arcane Water) So all elemental damage will be frost. And another bloodline Draconic Bloodline - Silver just for +1 to cold spells.

At thes point on lv 7 take Mythic Second Spirit -> Frost.
Now you can actualy make Cammellia Winter Witch at level 7

Next Mythic fit -> Convert fit in to Mythic ability -> Superiority of element -> Frost
From thes point you can penetrate anythin :)
And Camellia did not need rapier or any other weapon at all.
You can just put her lv3 summon lightning spell on auto.
And from lv5 Call Lightning Storm on Auto. Convert all to frost.. (Arcane Water from Sorc)
Use Hightened spell for all levels thet did not have Call Lightning.

If you want game breaking cheese, this can be on anyone but I used Camellia as my buff character so I discovered it on her. If you have enduring spells and Cave Fangs it will last 24 hours and uses 10 mins per cast like Call Lightening, but it can be used as a free action. So you can drop 144 of those in a single round.

[Balekai]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Elnidfse:

If you want to tank with Seelah without multiclassing her, make her take an animal companion for her divine bond. Give her mounted combat and mounted shield to add her +3 shield AC to her mount (or higher if you use a tower shield). Then give them both outflank by the time you hit level 7. Seelah's mount scales pretty naturally and you should be able to find and buy (one from the travelling salesman) better bardings naturally. By end game that little guy can have like 60+ AC. Which is way higher than Seelah can get by herself without nuking her hit with a tower shield and/or multiclassing the hell out of her.

I agree with this. I've been using a Neoseeker build based on your concept essentially and it works great (Booty on the Seven Seelahs build):

https://www.neoseeker.com/pathfinder-wrath-of-the-righteous/builds/Seelah

The only thing I plan on changing on it is the extra level in Freebooter for what i'm guessing, is for the extra stat bonus from Freebooter's bane but at the expense of possible full pet progression (? Probably an oversight if it does). It's also a lot more lore/iconic friendly than DD/bard (even though she's quite bardy)... Except for the wolf-scarred face Oracle curse thing adding a wolf nose and bite attacks. We will just ignore that little detail... At least the wolf face... I can see Seelah biting people though in combat! :D

So far the pet + Seelah just rocks as a tank that has great combat mobility, speed and size for bodyblocking. In addition, they actually hit/kill/cc things while giving small quasi bard buffs via Freebooter. Better yet, I used a lot of the other neoseeker pet builds + my own for Daeran. The combination of the two creates an army of off-tank trippers.

At level 7 I had 4 bully dogs/wolves tripping everything. All with 30+ AC and outflank on every melee character/pet. All supported by selective greases/webs/other CC, summons and AoE damage like selective fireballs for tougher fights. It's nice when your party outnumbers the enemies and not the other way around.

The build is also very encounter efficient. A virtue I learned from Kingmaker's timers and pushing content in very little time passed. All of her main abilities are unlimited times per day save for her smite evil (which you use on bosses really anyways). Combined with my 24 hour + buffs from an alchemist Woljif using infused personal buffs on her/pet, she should be good to go as a tank.