cavelier, horses, and classes

[James_GT]

I'm looking for some advice from people on my caveliers. I know there is much I don't understand about the game.

I put a level of cavelier in Seelah, Camelia, and Lann. All of there horses went to level 2. I though they need levels in classes with animal companions or a feat to have the companions stay at their level.

On my character I took a racer horse because 10 extra speed sounded nice. Is this a mistake or can I overcome the lack of enchanted barding? I have mounted combat and shield feats.

I know paladin can choose to get a mount. will going that way allow Seelah to add her paladin levels to determining mount level and allow her to be a tanky cavelier with support spells?

is there a caster that would be able to help my caveliers and their horses survive any encounter? perhaps by using Ember, Soseil or Nenio?

Do horses cap at lvl 20 or can I get it higher if I take legend?

[Cutlass Jack]

Publicado originalmente por Edstyles:

Any reason why chevalier would be bad on zeelah ? I mean you can always go paladin to lv 3 or 4 to get the aura . Then rest chevalier at least if going mounted combat.
Paladin spells seem just ok

Well Paladin can be great at mounted combat without going Cavalier. Plus you get the spells, auras, lay on hands etc. I don't think its 'bad' to make her a cavalier if it makes you happy. She just gets many of the benefits without being one. Including the fully leveled mount.

My main is a Gendarme anyways. Keeping Seelah paladin is a good fit for me. In addition to her aura stuff, she can get the mercy to remove fatigue. Which is great for me since you can't use the charge ability when tired. Her spellcasting actually gets pretty decent with Abundant Spell mythics too. Though that's secondary.

[[Heretic]Rivga]

Publicado originalmente por Cutlass Jack:

Take whatever class you want for your horse. You can learn to wear barding as a feat.

Don't bother going Cavalier on Seelah. They are no tankier than the paladin she already is and when she gets her mount it will match her level. And she'll have more spells by sticking with her class.

I wouldn't bother on Camelia or Lann either because their mounts wont level meaningfully without committing to it. Lann especially doesn't need it. He's already a high mobility archer. It wont do much for him.

Horses cap at 20 just like players. Legendary mount doesn't affect levels.

I seen a build on YouTube that give Lann a horse, it was only level 5 (1 lvl of cav and 4 from boon comp feat) and its role was to give Lann a load of mobility whilst keeping him firing his arrows, not a bad concept. With the toughness feat and barding, with the Bulwark arctype it would work well.

[Cutlass Jack]

Lann doesn't really need mobility though. He can hit most of the field with a longbow. Can fire while standing in melee without triggering AOOs and can even use his Ki power to teleport around if he wants. Lann wasting time moving is time not spent blowing up the enemy with arrows.

And if he really did need to move, he can get another KI ability that increases his speed as a swift action.

[Edstyles]

I like wendaug as she is easier to multiclass . My favourites Are rowdy rogue. Freebooter ranger.

[anfindel13]

Publicado originalmente por Donnicton:

Publicado originalmente por anfindel13:

However, I'm still not clear on whether Seelah taking one level of cavalier beast rider, for say a wolf or bear and then choosing the mount option at lvl 5 paladin will allow the mount to keep up levels with Seelah. Is a paladin with the mount choice considered a mount class or not? And if so, does that "mount class" status apply to the non-horse mount obtained as a beast rider. Does a paladin who doed NOT select a mount at level 5 count as a mount class, or not count because they did not select mount? Have not been able to get an answer to these questions as yet.

Every level starting at the level that class picks up their animal companion option counts towards the level of your animal companion, whether you have one already or picked one up with that level. So you absolutely can give her a wolf from another class(one good one for her is Oracle-> Nature Mystery -> Revelation: Animal Companion: Wolf -> Cure spells), and then run her Paladin up to level 4 and choose to continue the Wolf line. Make sure to grab Boon Companion so the +4 levels offset the initial 4 Pally levels that don't have a companion.

The description for Oracle with Nature Mystery under Bonded Mount states you must select an animal as a mount that you are capable of riding and is suitable as a mount, and specifies that a medium sized oracle can choose a horse or camel, while small can select a pony or a wolf, and if level 4 or higher, a dog or boar. Seelah is medium and according to this, it appears she cannot get a dog or wolf - plus she'd be stuck with a curse - something a cavalier beast rider would not get stuck with. Or am I misunderstanding something?

[Donnicton]

Publicado originalmente por anfindel13:

Publicado originalmente por Donnicton:

Every level starting at the level that class picks up their animal companion option counts towards the level of your animal companion, whether you have one already or picked one up with that level. So you absolutely can give her a wolf from another class(one good one for her is Oracle-> Nature Mystery -> Revelation: Animal Companion: Wolf -> Cure spells), and then run her Paladin up to level 4 and choose to continue the Wolf line. Make sure to grab Boon Companion so the +4 levels offset the initial 4 Pally levels that don't have a companion.

The description for Oracle with Nature Mystery under Bonded Mount states you must select an animal as a mount that you are capable of riding and is suitable as a mount, and specifies that a medium sized oracle can choose a horse or camel, while small can select a pony or a wolf, and if level 4 or higher, a dog or boar. Seelah is medium and according to this, it appears she cannot get a dog or wolf - plus she'd be stuck with a curse - something a cavalier beast rider would not get stuck with. Or am I misunderstanding something?

Seelah can pick Wolf.

[gphotopoulos]

[quote=Edstyles;2961670087544074228

Any reason why chevalier would be bad on zeelah ? I mean you can always go paladin to lv 3 or 4 to get the aura . Then rest chevalier at least if going mounted combat.
Paladin spells seem just ok

I remember in kingmaker the paladin dip was a thing [/quote]

Kingmaker enemies were mostly fey at the end, so Smite Evil didn't really do much for you. In this game, the majority of enemies are demons, and smite evil is really powerful so having more uses has more value than it did in Kingmaker. Especially when at L11 you can grant smite Evil to your entire party (so Seelah can grant her cha bonus to AC and AB, and her Paladin level to the damage of every single attack the party makes against a single enemy until that enemy is dead). Paladins also have the Bless Weapon and Holy Sword buffs (Clerics only get those if they pick Glory domain) which are really good in this game and they also get some of the best Cleric buffs for melee (Crusader's Edge, Eaglesoul, Angelic Aspect, Greater etc). If you take Enduring Spells and Greater Enduring spells for Seelah, every one of those buffs except Eaglesoul becomes a 24 hour buff. So if you keep Seelah as a Paladin until L13, you have permanent bypass /evil DR and autoconfirm crits, permanent +5 to hit and damage, +2D6 holy damage, permanent stacking 2D6 damage vs. Evil Outsiders, and permanent defensive benefits from Angelic Aspect and Archon's Aura. The autoconfirm criticals alone is huge, in unfair you can hit some mobs only on a 20 anyway, so autoconfirm crits results in almost double (or triple if you have a x3 multiplier, quadruple for x4 etc.) damage (almost and not exactly double, triple, etc because you have a 5% chance to crit when you roll a 20 even without Blessed Weapon, and because
some damage is not multiplied when you crit). Cavalier has some great bonuses and really fits the mounted combat style, but in this particular campaign I think Paladin is superior, even if you want to play a mounted knight. I'd definitely go to 11 (Mark of Justice) at minimum, and probably to 13 (L4 spells) if multiclassing her. Having said that, you don't have to go all the way to 20, but if you dip in another class that is not a pet class, you need Boon Companion. I thought of a Paladin 15/Cavalier 5 (or Pal13/Ca 7) build for Seelah, but I just couldn't find anything in the Cavalier class to justify that.

[The entire population of china]

Hey Man! I am currently playing a Cavalier.
I started as a Cavalier - Gendarme (He gets extra combat feats like a fighter, though but he looses on Tactician - Which allows you to select team feats and spread them through team...)
Normal team feats are very powerfull on cavalier due to Tactician... Because when you for example take Outflank, you activate Tactician, your mount also gets the feat and since you are always riding your mount it means Team Feats are always active for you :)
Probably the best Mount for a cavalier is a Smilodon, but for that you have to be playing a Beast Rider... Smilodon has the most attacks and the highest Chance to hit. You can also play as a Gnome and take a Panther... Panther automaticaly trips enemies on attack....

I for example play Gendarme, because he is good for multiclassing, allowing you to take key Feats if you target some specifically.. For Example a cavalier benefits from Charisma, since charisma increases your Attack when you Challenge an opponent.

So I knew I want to play as a Horseman of the Apocalypse. For that reason I took Gendarme, Half Orc (Extra intimidation) up to level 8 which allowed me to take Feats like Intimidating prowess - STR bonus to Intimidation, Dredfull carnage - Shaken and fear enemies on kill, Shatter deffenses - Extra attack against feared enemies. Cornugon smash - Automatic Intimidation on autoattack.
I took one level in Bloodrager - Bloodrider (As a Bloodline I chose a Dragon, this is important later), which allows me to use Rage and increases my mounted movement speed by 10. I now took Boon companion feat since I knew this is the moment I was going to multiclass.
And the rest of the levels I put into Fighter - Dragonheir Scion.. Since as a fighter you dont use your swift action for anythig else but to Challenge an oponent, so to not waste my Swift Action I wanter the Arcane Strike Feat, which is provided automatically with Dragonheir and thanks to the bloodline selection from before, Arcane strike deals additional Acid damage on hit.

Possible spoiler ahead
Last but not least I took the Lich Mythic Path.
In lich I took mainly Epic Mount, Undead Mount, and Very important Fear control... Which gives you a profane bonus on attack against feared and shaken oponents and Damage against them... Rest of the feats I stuck into two weapon fighting (Strength Based, since on a mount you can have low movement speed and thus Heavy armour does not slow you down)... And let us not forget that undead get extra life from charisma... Which means that Instead of lacking in HP departement, since I went mainly for charisma for the Cavalier and for strength I have over 350 Hp, and my attacks are 55 55 51 47 43... I hit somewhere between 35 - 220 damage on hit...

[Dekent]

Publicado originalmente por HereticRivga:

Publicado originalmente por Cutlass Jack:

Take whatever class you want for your horse. You can learn to wear barding as a feat.

Don't bother going Cavalier on Seelah. They are no tankier than the paladin she already is and when she gets her mount it will match her level. And she'll have more spells by sticking with her class.

I wouldn't bother on Camelia or Lann either because their mounts wont level meaningfully without committing to it. Lann especially doesn't need it. He's already a high mobility archer. It wont do much for him.

Horses cap at 20 just like players. Legendary mount doesn't affect levels.

I seen a build on YouTube that give Lann a horse, it was only level 5 (1 lvl of cav and 4 from boon comp feat) and its role was to give Lann a load of mobility whilst keeping him firing his arrows, not a bad concept. With the toughness feat and barding, with the Bulwark arctype it would work well.

Lann? Mobility? That bastard can lap the rest of my team including mounted Seelah and often runs head first into enemies while rest of my party is way in the back, which is not good for an archer. He's Speedy Gonmongles already!