Are Monster like Glabrezu supposed to be able to Cast AND Full attack?

[Demonicfox2000]

So I've been coming across monsters that either Full attack and cast Mirror Image in a single turn (Glabrezus in this case around level 13 myself) but I've also seen instances of monsters double casting buff spells and damage spells. I know of few instances where you can cast two full spells per turn, but the monsters I see doing this do NOT have the Quickened Metamagic in their description and such.

[Demonicfox2000]

Looked at the logs, they cast Mirror image as a "Swift Action". Ew.

[belangf]

They are not casting like a spellcaster. These are supernatural abilities they can use at will. Not sure if they are supposed to be swift actions though.

[Demonicfox2000]

As per RAW in Pathfinder TTRPG, No, it is not a swift action. It is "At Will" which still is a "Spell like ability" that should be cast only as a standard, to my knowledge.

[Demonicfox2000]

Although the argument could be made that 'at will' only uses 'will' as the key word for an action, which in most cases is simply the action of a thought...

[Demonicfox2000]

https://aonprd.com/UMR.aspx?ItemName=Spell-Like%20Abilities

"A spell-like ability usually has a limit on how often it can be used. A constant spell-like ability or one that can be used at will has no use limit. Reactivating a constant spell-like ability is a swift action. Using all other spell-like abilities is a standard action unless noted otherwise, and doing so provokes attacks of opportunity. It is possible to attempt a concentration check to use a spell-like ability defensively and avoid provoking attacks of opportunity, just as when casting a spell. A spell-like ability can be disrupted just as a spell can be. Spell-like abilities cannot be used to counterspell, nor can they be counterspelled."

They should also be provoking AoOs everytime they cast an SLA, which they do not at the moment.

[Decius Brutus]

Originally posted by belangf:

They are not casting like a spellcaster. These are supernatural abilities they can use at will. Not sure if they are supposed to be swift actions though.

A common error in people new to reading the rules is to think "At will" and "as a free action" are the same.

[T.W. Hamill]

But Glabrezu are pretty high-end Demons (i still prefer the 2nd Ed AD&D names, personally, as i think they are more flavorful, but.. whatev) and likely, CAN activate a decent number of their abilities as Swift actions.

Spolier-ish:
And also remember that you're fighting Demons that have been augmented via some process. They will vary.

[Demonicfox2000]

Originally posted by T.W. Hamill:

But Glabrezu are pretty high-end Demons (i still prefer the 2nd Ed AD&D names, personally, as i think they are more flavorful, but.. whatev) and likely, CAN activate a decent number of their abilities as Swift actions.

Spolier-ish:
And also remember that you're fighting Demons that have been augmented via some process. They will vary.

These aren't Mythic Glabrezus doing this. In fact, they were cultists that "Shapeshifted" into "Glabrezu Conquerors", which honestly should probably have less of an advantage than real Glabrezus.

Just as well, this goes off of Pathfinder 1st Ed, not D&D. Move Economy is VERY much stared at with scrutiny in the TTRPG because messing with it can cause imbalances.

[Frostfeather]

You can do this with Sorcerous Reflex, so it doesn't seem unreasonable they can do something similar too.

[Lord451]

From core pathfinder, they have a ton of cool at will abilities, but they're all spell likes - meaning same cast time as the spell. So that's a buff to make them even worse in this than they'd be in the core game. But even then, I got a chance to look at mythic in the actual game? It's got nothing on the crazy ♥♥♥♥ here.

[T.W. Hamill]

Originally posted by Demonicfox2000:

Just as well, this goes off of Pathfinder 1st Ed, not D&D. Move Economy is VERY much stared at with scrutiny in the TTRPG because messing with it can cause imbalances.

Trying to claim that Paizo has some scientific method in its designs is the height of hillarity. Pathfinder 1 (and 2 isnt really a lot better) isnt remotely balanced, i assure you.

Which is fine. Thats not even really a dig. Systems that are fun for players are rarely truly balanced. It just needs to be playable and fun, which by and large it is for the people who like crunchy mechanics-forward TT games.

[Decius Brutus]

Originally posted by T.W. Hamill:

Originally posted by Demonicfox2000:

Just as well, this goes off of Pathfinder 1st Ed, not D&D. Move Economy is VERY much stared at with scrutiny in the TTRPG because messing with it can cause imbalances.

Trying to claim that Paizo has some scientific method in its designs is the height of hillarity. Pathfinder 1 (and 2 isnt really a lot better) isnt remotely balanced, i assure you.

Which is fine. Thats not even really a dig. Systems that are fun for players are rarely truly balanced. It just needs to be playable and fun, which by and large it is for the people who like crunchy mechanics-forward TT games.

"Balanced" is an interesting term. Especially when it refers to a free Quicken Spell Like Ability feat.

[Morgian]

The monster feat Quicken Spell-like Ability allows a monster to use a specific spell-like ability three times per day as a swift action. Maybe they implemented that? I have never taken that close a look at the textwall of the higher demons to check such things.

[Demonicfox2000]

Originally posted by Morgian:

The monster feat Quicken Spell-like Ability allows a monster to use a specific spell-like ability three times per day as a swift action. Maybe they implemented that? I have never taken that close a look at the textwall of the higher demons to check such things.

I didn't see any of those Monster Feats in the Beastiary/Info for them.

[Shadowmail]

I just assumed they were casting it as a quickened metamagic and ignored it.