Rome vs. Carthage (Macedonia crazy!)

[Mr. Goblin]

Hmmm.

Started my first game into the new DLC as Macedonia.


Um.... I lost the game in the first 4 turns!

I was steamrolled right away by two (start) warring factions. They are decked out.
My military is rubble.

My two army mediocre army units were killed within the first 4 turns. The first unit killed on the first Turn. I was playing defense.

I had a reserved Hoplite unit coming out to play. It put me into Gold deficit on turn 4. I can't afford to maintain that Hoplite. My last and best unit.

I upgraded my Gold Mine and Stone mine on turn one. Still no good.

The enemy have Hoplites, each; as well a couple few lesser units.

I am not allowed to deal any Diplomacy on the first four turns, it seems. So Peace, is out of the question.

What a shocking beginning.


I can't stop these enemies from taking my town now. I cant afford to stop the city Fire.
The game is lost so soon.


Is this normal??


I am going to attempt another game here. Odd.

[Mr. Goblin]

Escrito originalmente por sajmon:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2866041659
And this is the famous battle at Larissa that ended my campaign. I was quite shocked my guys were 1 shot there, unlucky ;)

Yes. I had the same experience in some of my Game play through. One-shot killed. My whole 3 man (and even an Emissary) army was one-shot killed actually. Per every turn. By the same Hellas Hopelite! Hahaha. He really really really wanted Larissa. he got it.

[Mr. Goblin]

Escrito originalmente por sajmon:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2866030815

TLDR: I managed to take Delphi and Athens ;)

So to have any fighting chance versus Epirus units, i switched goverment to City State to boost morale of my units. Without this on previous tries my units felt very weak versus them.

I placed Nomad on stone mine and Peltasts in Larissa. Hellas suicided their Hoplite on my Peltasts, while Nomad managed to survive few Epirus attacks (was also lucky enough to get a Hero)
When i got my Hoplite, i took Delphi and offered a peace to Hellas, but was declined (chance was "Possible"). A turn later i offered peace to Epirus, and was also declined (also "Possible"). If one of those was accepted, i think i could stabilize and continue.
Unfortunately next turn i lost my Peltasts in Larissa (Nomad was already gone), so game was lost at that point. If Peltast survived 1 more attack, i could move Hoplites to Larissa, heal Peltasts in 2 turns and who knows. Even now i could try to hold for a bit, but it would be a struggle, so instead...

Taking Athens at the end was just for fun, i cant repair the city and cant afford to build any unit except for nomad. GG

Anyway im fairly sure i could make it work on one of future tries, but i think im good for now ;)
But yeah its not an easy start, especially Epirus with their + ~48% morale units look unstoppable

Can you share with me your Difficulty levels? This game.
As well; if you were on IronMan mode or not? As well; if you had the Army Moral option clicked on as YES. At game set up.

[Kube Games]

I would say that switching to City states is the missing piece in the puzzle. The fact that Macedon has just three cities at the beginning makes better than their current government and the army morale boost is significant.
I would say that Epirus (AI) also switched to city states government (hence the high army morale).

[Kube Games]

Escrito originalmente por sajmon:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2866041659
And this is the famous battle at Larissa that ended my campaign. I was quite shocked my guys were 1 shot there, unlucky ;)

It actually seems very plausible. They had about 40% higher attack than your defense and they lost just about 300 soldiers less than you. They ended up almost entirely destroyed as well.

[sajmon]

Escrito originalmente por Mr. Goblin:

Escrito originalmente por sajmon:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2866030815

TLDR: I managed to take Delphi and Athens ;)

So to have any fighting chance versus Epirus units, i switched goverment to City State to boost morale of my units. Without this on previous tries my units felt very weak versus them.

I placed Nomad on stone mine and Peltasts in Larissa. Hellas suicided their Hoplite on my Peltasts, while Nomad managed to survive few Epirus attacks (was also lucky enough to get a Hero)
When i got my Hoplite, i took Delphi and offered a peace to Hellas, but was declined (chance was "Possible"). A turn later i offered peace to Epirus, and was also declined (also "Possible"). If one of those was accepted, i think i could stabilize and continue.
Unfortunately next turn i lost my Peltasts in Larissa (Nomad was already gone), so game was lost at that point. If Peltast survived 1 more attack, i could move Hoplites to Larissa, heal Peltasts in 2 turns and who knows. Even now i could try to hold for a bit, but it would be a struggle, so instead...

Taking Athens at the end was just for fun, i cant repair the city and cant afford to build any unit except for nomad. GG

Anyway im fairly sure i could make it work on one of future tries, but i think im good for now ;)
But yeah its not an easy start, especially Epirus with their + ~48% morale units look unstoppable

Can you share with me your Difficulty levels? This game.
As well; if you were on IronMan mode or not? As well; if you had the Army Moral option clicked on as YES. At game set up.

Medium difficulty, everything on default, everything turned on except Mixed Tech tree and Randomized relations. Yes it was on Iron mode.

[sajmon]

Escrito originalmente por Kube Games:

I would say that switching to City states is the missing piece in the puzzle. The fact that Macedon has just three cities at the beginning makes better than their current government and the army morale boost is significant.
I would say that Epirus (AI) also switched to city states government (hence the high army morale).

Yeah it made a lot of difference on the above try.

Escrito originalmente por Kube Games:

Escrito originalmente por sajmon:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2866041659
And this is the famous battle at Larissa that ended my campaign. I was quite shocked my guys were 1 shot there, unlucky ;)

It actually seems very plausible. They had about 40% higher attack than your defense and they lost just about 300 soldiers less than you. They ended up almost entirely destroyed as well.

Yeah im not saying it was ludicruos result, but very surprising to me in a bad way, because they already fought each other on previous turn, and as you can see on the screenshot, Hoplites start this fight with 3.4/2.9 and my guys 2.9/2.8. Solid victory into a massacre (for both sides to be fair) on the very next turn. Enemy Hoplites might have gotten "Axe" trait on previous day and maybe thats the difference too, but i cant tell.

[Kube Games]

Escrito originalmente por sajmon:

they already fought each other on previous turn, and as you can see on the screenshot, Hoplites start this fight with 3.4/2.9 and my guys 2.9/2.8. Solid victory into a massacre (for both sides to be fair) on the very next turn. Enemy Hoplites might have gotten "Axe" trait on previous day and maybe thats the difference too, but i cant tell.

To be honest, the fact that there was another clash previous turn between the very same units is not an indicator of future result in any way.
Sometimes there are battles where even big armies have very low number of casulties (on both sides), sometimes units simply withdraw from the battle (due to any cause like weather, bad sign, prophecy, bad terrain, etc).
Due to the level of abstraction, this is kind of hidden in Imperiums but sometimes it is simply "not the day" for a battle. History is pretty full of such examples.

[sajmon]

i understand the concept, it was just a surprise to me as a player :)

[Mr. Goblin]

Escrito originalmente por Kube Games:

I would say that switching to City states is the missing piece in the puzzle. The fact that Macedon has just three cities at the beginning makes better than their current government and the army morale boost is significant.
I would say that Epirus (AI) also switched to city states government (hence the high army morale).

This can only be done; at a certain point in the game though. Yes? Not right away in the starter turns. Is my understanding.

[Mr. Goblin]

Escrito originalmente por sajmon:

Escrito originalmente por Mr. Goblin:

Can you share with me your Difficulty levels? This game.
As well; if you were on IronMan mode or not? As well; if you had the Army Moral option clicked on as YES. At game set up.

Medium difficulty, everything on default, everything turned on except Mixed Tech tree and Randomized relations. Yes it was on Iron mode.

That is exactly how I play too. Good good.

[Mr. Goblin]

Escrito originalmente por Kube Games:

Escrito originalmente por sajmon:

they already fought each other on previous turn, and as you can see on the screenshot, Hoplites start this fight with 3.4/2.9 and my guys 2.9/2.8. Solid victory into a massacre (for both sides to be fair) on the very next turn. Enemy Hoplites might have gotten "Axe" trait on previous day and maybe thats the difference too, but i cant tell.

To be honest, the fact that there was another clash previous turn between the very same units is not an indicator of future result in any way.
Sometimes there are battles where even big armies have very low number of casulties (on both sides), sometimes units simply withdraw from the battle (due to any cause like weather, bad sign, prophecy, bad terrain, etc).
Due to the level of abstraction, this is kind of hidden in Imperiums but sometimes it is simply "not the day" for a battle. History is pretty full of such examples.

I did not know 'weather' roll-of-die was a part of battles in this game? (puzzled look)
That is pretty neat though. A slight weather randomize'r?

[Kube Games]

Escrito originalmente por Mr. Goblin:

This can only be done; at a certain point in the game though. Yes? Not right away in the starter turns. Is my understanding.

You can switch government any time you want and choose any government you want. Nevertheless, it costs resources and city states government is really efficient only up to 4 cities (including). It depends on the resource type and available alternative governments though. For some resources, City states might be more efficient even for 5 cities (in comparison to another government type).

Escrito originalmente por Mr. Goblin:

I did not know 'weather' roll-of-die was a part of battles in this game? (puzzled look)
That is pretty neat though. A slight weather randomize'r?

The analogy is not just related to weather. For example, there were prophets (before a battle took place) who were advising how and when to attack, or delay the battle or directly withdraw from the battle.
There were "omens" which were also interpreted in different ways.
That's why you can experience in Imperiums battles where there are no casulties on both sides. This basically means that the parties decided to not go into the battle at all.

[a_delo3]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2866320893

Turn is 12, medium difficulty.
Epirus defeated, Greeks sued for peace (which I granted to buy time to re-deploy my units and train another unit of hoplites and cavalry. Then it will be their turn, treacherous little bastards).
Having to fight two enemies with more resources makes mandatory a fully offensive strategy.
I suggest to deal with Epirus first: not only it can be destroyed without a navy but its position is far more dangerous as they can strike directly at our homeland and they do not start with hoplites. Plus are filthy rich, so would solve our problem with gold.
Nomads and cavalry are the key to hold the Greek at bay long enough for our hoplite and peltast to deal with the Epirotes: if Larissa fall we can hold to the river more or less at will (no bridges, cavalry will crush any nomad attempting to make a bridgehead.
As soon as can spare a few coins send an emissary at Sparta (if are friendly will not join the Greeks against us).
Since if can not knock out quickly at least one of those two countries we are doomed anyway I suggest to use the "prophecy" 30% morale boost (beside it works far more often than not): a fortified nomad with high morale and defense boost can hold basically against anything in forest or hill.

[Mr. Goblin]

Escrito originalmente por Kube Games:

Escrito originalmente por Mr. Goblin:

This can only be done; at a certain point in the game though. Yes? Not right away in the starter turns. Is my understanding.

You can switch government any time you want and choose any government you want. Nevertheless, it costs resources and city states government is really efficient only up to 4 cities (including). It depends on the resource type and available alternative governments though. For some resources, City states might be more efficient even for 5 cities (in comparison to another government type).

Escrito originalmente por Mr. Goblin:

I did not know 'weather' roll-of-die was a part of battles in this game? (puzzled look)
That is pretty neat though. A slight weather randomize'r?

The analogy is not just related to weather. For example, there were prophets (before a battle took place) who were advising how and when to attack, or delay the battle or directly withdraw from the battle.
There were "omens" which were also interpreted in different ways.
That's why you can experience in Imperiums battles where there are no casulties on both sides. This basically means that the parties decided to not go into the battle at all.

Interesting. Interesting, indeed.

A sort of extra battle randomizer outcome.

[Mr. Goblin]

Escrito originalmente por a_delo3:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2866320893

Turn is 12, medium difficulty.
Epirus defeated, Greeks sued for peace (which I granted to buy time to re-deploy my units and train another unit of hoplites and cavalry. Then it will be their turn, treacherous little bastards).
Having to fight two enemies with more resources makes mandatory a fully offensive strategy.
I suggest to deal with Epirus first: not only it can be destroyed without a navy but its position is far more dangerous as they can strike directly at our homeland and they do not start with hoplites. Plus are filthy rich, so would solve our problem with gold.
Nomads and cavalry are the key to hold the Greek at bay long enough for our hoplite and peltast to deal with the Epirotes: if Larissa fall we can hold to the river more or less at will (no bridges, cavalry will crush any nomad attempting to make a bridgehead.
As soon as can spare a few coins send an emissary at Sparta (if are friendly will not join the Greeks against us).
Since if can not knock out quickly at least one of those two countries we are doomed anyway I suggest to use the "prophecy" 30% morale boost (beside it works far more often than not): a fortified nomad with high morale and defense boost can hold basically against anything in forest or hill.

Ok. The primary point here though, is to KEEP Larissa.

Yes. Letting Larissa go (and failing the Mission Objective) can certainly free up Macedon to make better gains moving forward.

The thing is. I don't want to 'force' lose Larissa! Period.
I want to maintain and complete that Mission objective. No matter what.

Can you play; while also keeping Larisa? At least to the point where Objective is complete.