What's the consensus on engaging strikes?: Yay or nay?

[Lampros]

It seems that the posts I've read are divided on this: Some say it's useful to protect the squishy ranged from wandering melees, but others say all it does is primarily eat up your stamina that can be used elsewhere.

So what's the latest verdict?

[Oranthal_J_Simpson]

I have builds with stamina to burn- particularly karwla speed, which otherwise would have stamina wasted each turn, if there wasn't engaging strike and the AI consistently, particularly ranged units, trying to walk away from it. It has killed a bunch of them.

I like it, but then I've got a BK Urtuk and people hate the blood knight, so I burned a mutator absorption spot on engaging strike.

You can use it to build up focus too, of course. If your build has focus proc mutators and/or a good focus ability.

I always found the vampires and the jumping swampers a nightmare because of engaging strike tying up a unit that I wanted to do something else with, so I tried it myself. It's ok.

[ianming]

I find it pretty meh, for it to be really good you have to:
- hit ranged units
- have a lot of stamina to spare
- get your melee unit to the back ranks of the enemy lines where the ranged units are
Last point is kinda tied with the 1st one but you get the idea. Also if you use it against melee units they might try to run away if the unit that's engaging them has a ton of HP (so the AI tries to switch to another target).
Also if you use engaging strikes with mauls and maces, the engaging "hits" will also apply the slow debuff.
I'd say experiment with it, some people like it, some don't, there's no final answer afaik.

[Sloul Des Tucs]

It's a plus, but probably not something you would aim to get through mutators.

[Lampros]

Originally posted by Sloul:

It's a plus, but probably not something you would aim to get through mutators.

There aren't that many characters that start with it, are there? I've only found Footman, for instance.

[RCMidas]

It's inherent to the billhook-using characters: Footman, Swamper Engager, Elder Vampire etc. Otherwise you have to rely upon mutators to get it, and there are better mutators than that one almost every fight.

[Lampros]

Originally posted by RCMidas:

It's inherent to the billhook-using characters: Footman, Swamper Engager, Elder Vampire etc. Otherwise you have to rely upon mutators to get it, and there are better mutators than that one almost every fight.

Ah, ok. I don't like Footman any longer, because he can't shield ally with Protection to be a genuine tank, and he cannot DPS enough to be a DPS.

[RCMidas]

His primary use is to block ranged attacks and prevent someone you want dead from getting away. Couple him with a Spearman to shield even more of your team from ranged attacks and prevent anyone you don't want close to you from approaching. Individually they are OK, together they are amazing.

[Lampros]

Originally posted by RCMidas:

His primary use is to block ranged attacks and prevent someone you want dead from getting away. Couple him with a Spearman to shield even more of your team from ranged attacks and prevent anyone you don't want close to you from approaching. Individually they are OK, together they are amazing.

But I don't want more than 2 tank types, and that means I'd have 3 (since I always take a shield user as well)...

[Lampros]

Can Footman in some way be converted to a DPS character? I guess this can be done only as an Urtuk? Or is that not really possible either?

[RCMidas]

Believe me, I get it. Same reason I dislike doubling up on character types. It isn't necessarily mechanically-ideal, or even efficient in the slightest, but I enjoy the game more without duplicates.

[Lampros]

Originally posted by RCMidas:

Believe me, I get it. Same reason I dislike doubling up on character types. It isn't necessarily mechanically-ideal, or even efficient in the slightest, but I enjoy the game more without duplicates.

Yeah, the only character I recruit more than 1 is the Priest. I wish the game had more healers. I refuse to recruit the Swamper one, because there is only so much ugliness I can take - even for mutants! ;)

[Killer29687]

Shamans are the true mvp healers... second go to werebeast hooks where they take damage it heals other units... big beefy boy with big damage, low to see it. This is my usual party: jav urtuk, footman, guardian, spearman, blood knight, werebeast hooker... if it’s a attrition game I’ll swap out one of the 3 mentioned characters. Jav urtuk: creates choke points and gives adv ground, ranged support means that’s a extra 200+ damage every attack my other members do, footman for ramming/protection from range units... not to mention critical counter strike with immobilized strike/pushing critical means he will lock down and stun enemies if you position him right (or they fall to their death) guardian is the defender, somewhat dps, pushes enemies away etcetc, spearman with a lot of stamina means the enemy can’t get close enough, having him at a choke point where the enemy cannot get to you? Rain down with jav. Blood knight due to his leech/self sustaining/ godlike killer. Werebeast hook lastly can grab a unit, and cause any ally units in range of the dragged in foe a free hit. That’s 4+ hits if you line them up right, he’s basically a blood knight in all but name (some differences ofc) I use evo stones on him since he has flesh eater on default. (Wish we knew more about mutations and gamining the system by infection to get more mutator slots/etc. hopefully this helps.

[twpe]

An engager can be useful in some battles, but not every battle. So, you kind of have to level them alongside your party somehow if you plan to use them.

But since the topic has shifted towards healers... I personally don't like to dedicate an entire slot of my 6 man team to a dedicated healer. If a unit can't simultaneously heal while doing something else more useful (like outright killing the enemy and preventing more damage in the first place), then it is a wasted slot to me.

Some people like them... Personally I feel that the priest and shaman are more useful for their buffs than their heals if you choose to use them (and lead... Lead can be good). Aegis has some great tactical usage and berserk on a high stamina unit is quite strong.

[Lampros]

Originally posted by twpe:

An engager can be useful in some battles, but not every battle. So, you kind of have to level them alongside your party somehow if you plan to use them.

But since the topic has shifted towards healers... I personally don't like to dedicate an entire slot of my 6 man team to a dedicated healer. If a unit can't simultaneously heal while doing something else more useful (like outright killing the enemy and preventing more damage in the first place), then it is a wasted slot to me.

Some people like them... Personally I feel that the priest and shaman are more useful for their buffs than their heals if you choose to use them (and lead... Lead can be good). Aegis has some great tactical usage and berserk on a high stamina unit is quite strong.

So whom do you prefer between Priests and Shamans?

And any tips on how to build Priest - Mutators and stats?

[rassen]

Originally posted by Lampros:

Originally posted by RCMidas:

His primary use is to block ranged attacks and prevent someone you want dead from getting away. Couple him with a Spearman to shield even more of your team from ranged attacks and prevent anyone you don't want close to you from approaching. Individually they are OK, together they are amazing.

But I don't want more than 2 tank types, and that means I'd have 3 (since I always take a shield user as well)...

Footman is the most useful of the 3 actually, he is anti-ranged with the extramobility from ram, ram is super powerful, especially when you get to map 2 and see stalwart enemies everywhere, wait until you ram that 3khp super tanky marshbeast/valdor down the put, no class can do that kind of damage. You can turn him into a guardian too with protector mutator. He can equip 3 piececees of gears so that is 3 extra mutator slot (spearman is 2)

Finally he got projectile deflector which is a cheat skill by itself, very useful in blocking for your squishies or fort invasion.

Early game shaman sound better but priest is much more useful later, simply because he can do many action in one turn, heal aegis move attack. Shaman you probably berserk and that's it turn end. Priest heal is also instant and scale with his hp so it is pretty powerful.