Impressions after beating the game

[madracc00n]

So ive done the "final" boss which is the end in current version of the game.I would rate combat system in this game as 8/10 for this genre,but overall game is 6/10 for me(even tho i am huge fan of games like battle brothers,darkest dungeon,disciples,xcom etc).
So i am gonna list problems i see with a game:

1)The way u progress through the game is just terrible design choice,since going from village to village is super repetitive,also village fights are super easy and boring,since u can just pull enemies 1 by 1.There should be different and faster ways to progress,so if u wanna farm up for last fight u can do it in any zone and not waste 10 hours on every zone to clear villages over and over and over again.

2)Additional starts beast and vampires for now are again boring and lacking,u can only start as 3 clone vampires or 3 types of beasts thats all for 2 "new starts".So current replay value is close to 0,unless u wanna challenge urself and beat the game on "true" ironman with 0 save loads.
So to get new "????" start which is probably Valdors or necroguys u ll need to beat game again on new patch....That is not fun at all(saves are not working on completely new version),since i already finished map 4 on normal + and the only way i replay this if i can play as different starting units not vampire clones.

3)Last mission having 2-5 enemy xbows depending on how lucky u are is again very bad design choice,since sometimes u gonna take insane dmg every turn and sometimes they wont even reach u(Save load dream).Also if u run full melee party u gonna strugle hard on last fight,unless u spam monks with their leap and it is with op Flesh eater being on live patch.

4)New merc types and unit types u can buy/hire are not very interesting,coz they mostly copy active abilities/perks from human base units.Vages are again pretty bad design since they just add more grind to the game,since u need to grind trilium to support ur mercs.I am pretty sure fortress mercs should be free of vage.

5)New zones are all the same.U need to have different terrain and new enemy types each zone.And the only new enemy that is not present in zone 1 is necrodudes...Minor terrain changes are not even noticeable.
So if u played zone 1 for 5 hours u basically seen most of ingame content already.

6)There is basically no story in the game,dunno why not just make it sandbox like battle brothers.

7)Fort defence missions(Help allied units in a fort,not fortress) are not balanced at all,unless u abuse raise terrain to block enemies.This mission type is probably the hardest in the game and not worth doing at all(unless u run 2 jav dudes or ur party is super strong).

8)Only 2 support classes out of all the factions types.Which again illustrates lack of cool active abilities u can use.

9)QoL is lacking big time,but i guess u can say it is EA.Example being walls of text on top of the map or lvling mutators.

10)Battles being super slow,even with 3x speed,since often times in order to finish last enemy unit,u ll have to waste 2-3 minutes just running to him,since enemies like to get stuck.I am sure enemies should be running away and letting u win the battle when u have full 6 man still standing against 1 or 2 leftover enemies that panicked away earlier.

[Kittenpaw]

I guess all the positive feedback points are assumed because I didn’t see any...

[Mad Sheep Studios]

Thanks for feedback.

The campaign is something we constantly design to balance/add content so there is lots of space to improve.
With the slowness of later battles - already addessed.
Other stuff is also addressed as this is really just one week in EA.

David

[GRAVEBRINGER]

I don't own game yet but how can you say you beat game when game is not finished yet?

[Poet]

Originally posted by madrac00n:

So ive done the "final" boss which is the end in current version of the game.I would rate combat system in this game as 8/10 for this genre,but overall game is 6/10 for me(even tho i am huge fan of games like battle brothers,darkest dungeon,disciples,xcom etc).
So i am gonna list problems i see with a game:

1)The way u progress through the game is just terrible design choice,since going from village to village is super repetitive,also village fights are super easy and boring,since u can just pull enemies 1 by 1.There should be different and faster ways to progress,so if u wanna farm up for last fight u can do it in any zone and not waste 10 hours on every zone to clear villages over and over and over again.

2)Additional starts beast and vampires for now are again boring and lacking,u can only start as 3 clone vampires or 3 types of beasts thats all for 2 "new starts".So current replay value is close to 0,unless u wanna challenge urself and beat the game on "true" ironman with 0 save loads.
So to get new "????" start which is probably Valdors or necroguys u ll need to beat game again on new patch....That is not fun at all(saves are not working on completely new version),since i already finished map 4 on normal + and the only way i replay this if i can play as different starting units not vampire clones.

3)Last mission having 2-5 enemy xbows depending on how lucky u are is again very bad design choice,since sometimes u gonna take insane dmg every turn and sometimes they wont even reach u(Save load dream).Also if u run full melee party u gonna strugle hard on last fight,unless u spam monks with their leap and it is with op Flesh eater being on live patch.

4)New merc types and unit types u can buy/hire are not very interesting,coz they mostly copy active abilities/perks from human base units.Vages are again pretty bad design since they just add more grind to the game,since u need to grind trilium to support ur mercs.I am pretty sure fortress mercs should be free of vage.

5)New zones are all the same.U need to have different terrain and new enemy types each zone.And the only new enemy that is not present in zone 1 is necrodudes...Minor terrain changes are not even noticeable.
So if u played zone 1 for 5 hours u basically seen most of ingame content already.

6)There is basically no story in the game,dunno why not just make it sandbox like battle brothers.

7)Fort defence missions(Help allied units in a fort,not fortress) are not balanced at all,unless u abuse raise terrain to block enemies.This mission type is probably the hardest in the game and not worth doing at all(unless u run 2 jav dudes or ur party is super strong).

8)Only 2 support classes out of all the factions types.Which again illustrates lack of cool active abilities u can use.

9)QoL is lacking big time,but i guess u can say it is EA.Example being walls of text on top of the map or lvling mutators.

10)Battles being super slow,even with 3x speed,since often times in order to finish last enemy unit,u ll have to waste 2-3 minutes just running to him,since enemies like to get stuck.I am sure enemies should be running away and letting u win the battle when u have full 6 man still standing against 1 or 2 leftover enemies that panicked away earlier.

I think the dev was really nice with you, because a lot of your points are a lot of whining.

1) It is the gameplay core loop. It could be varied like Battle Brothers does with missions, but it ultimately the same gameplay. I expect this will expend through the EA.

2) Im not sure what you expect, or want. Maybe offer up suggestions instead of basically saying "do something else idk"

3) Agreed, there needs to be adjustments on ranged units to mitigate their effectiveness or make new counters like projectile shielding.

4) You keep using that word "bad design" but Im not sure you know what it means. Classes could use new skills I agree, but the ones they have aren`t bad.

5) You can fight necroreavers in zone 1, they just aren`t common. For the rest, game is in EA for a week, enough said

6) Again, Im not sure what you mean. If you want to play Battle Brothers, go play Battle Brothers.

7) Relates to the ranged units needing some tweaks.

8) Im guessing you mean Priest and Swamp Shaman. My guess is that they aren`t intended as pure support units. I personally don`t like either but that isn`t a problem when there`s over 30 other classes to try

9) It's not holding your hand. Remember Dark Souls ?

10) I havent experienced this. Panicked units tends to move back and forth for me, they don`t run to the end of the map. Im fine with X2 speed, but Im more laidback I guess

[yS]

Originally posted by Poet:

I think the dev was really nice with you, because a lot of your points are a lot of whining.
2) Im not sure what you expect, or want. Maybe offer up suggestions instead of basically saying "do something else idk"

6) Again, Im not sure what you mean. If you want to play Battle Brothers, go play Battle Brothers.

8) Im guessing you mean Priest and Swamp Shaman. My guess is that they aren`t intended as pure support units. I personally don`t like either but that isn`t a problem when there`s over 30 other classes to try

9) It's not holding your hand. Remember Dark Souls ?

2) Havent finished the game yet, only played humans so far, but a mix of some mutants or even scavengers, could be interesting. Even if Scavengers are very similar to default classes.

6) I think he means that the game starts with short comic and introduction 'escape' sequence, then the first village tells you to find a cave to progress to second location. Maybe it'll be filled during EA or on release, I don't mind it that much.

7) Ranged units can be a pain, but it depends on the strategy. If you like to turtle - holding a position with glass cannon ranged damage dealers, you can easily get sniped down.
There is counter to ranged characters in form of melee - ranged counter is a thing, even if you need to have a melee unit next to it. Footmen are extremely good, warmonks / bloodknights are also very good, assassins could also work. Issue here seems to be being a party of up to 6 against larger groups (like 12+), where your flanking unit will get instantly pinned down and killed.
Ranged blocking is in the game, kind off - you just need to have units in the line of attack off their target, just like it works for your own hunters. (doesn't happen to the javelin guys)

But it'd be nice to have a class or some skill dedicated to it.

8) I personally don't like priest too much, even if I find him interesting and fun to use. He is invaluable for holding out positions and pairs too well with glass cannons, that you can cover with aegis. Seems to be a must have for that combo.
On the other hand, there is plenty of support characters, they just aren't 100% focused on it - use bloodknight and you will have access to lifesteal focus ability; use footman and you will get rejuvenation. Or use an item that changes the focus ability. Though you'd need to level up concentration or use items to boost that stat; use some mutations and you can easily get some healing, or you can even use warmonk to flip the unit, I believe.

9) Dark Souls still had a good tutorial area, in this game it took me time to even figure out I could drag one mutation onto the same, to upgrade it. Or even figuring out how to cure vampirism / werebeast virus.

10) I personally don't have issue with it either, you can always hold TAB / Space, to speed it up, or go max settings. And panicked enemies work the same for me (latest version of game on steam)

[Asuzu]

Originally posted by Kittenpaw:

I guess all the positive feedback points are assumed because I didn’t see any...

Haha yeah
Yeah this is a bit 1-sided "Review"
If the guy lists that much bad, shouldn't he at least find it in his heart to list something good?

That being said:
- The game badly needs true DD-styled Ironman from the start (every decision is final, every move is saved on a spot). I honestly wish David would consider making this a priority for the nearest patch. Savescumming is just killing this sort of game.
- Next step would be an Urtuk's chronicles - e.g., what he was doing, who joined him, who died, etc. A full story of the warband until the wipe or victory. It would make a fun read and forum boasting.

I personally love the game as it is - the idea, the style, overall party management and tactical combat, and hope for more content improvements along the way.
Maybe make it more survival, e.g. you need food/blood constantly and can't just sit there healing for 5 days until your A team is up.

@Kittenpaw and dude, please stream more, it's only you or Filthy playing it proper and regularly on Twitch and I need to watch something over dinner lol.

[Mad Sheep Studios]

Hey,
the Ironmode is already implemented in the beta branch.
I like the idea of a history, I've heard already really funny stories from people playing the game.

[Lord Nteuzz]

History/Chronicles sounds fun! Especially if it is sprinkled with some appropriate linguistic style...Perhaps add some randomized text comments ala Fallout 1 or Darkest Dungeon...Lovely idea!

[Kittenpaw]

I will certainly be back. I hardly have a set schedule since streaming is much more a hobby for me, as evidenced by my extremely professional overlays etc. I’m a father of two young boys who keep me busy. Good to know someone is watching and enjoying.