Lucky I can't review, 1 out of 10

[DonkeyBallZ]

Spent like 2 hrs building up a network of advanced ABM SAMs with tons of radar. Second the war starts bombers fly over and nuke them like they didn't even exist. Wtf is the point of building defences if they don't do anything? Seriously the biggest waste of 2 hours I have ever played; fix how worthless your SAMs are against bombers that nuke them point blank. City surrounded by 4 SAMs? Good way to waste 4 SAMs, cuz they don't do anything. In fact since SAMs are the only real defense building anything is just trash in this game. Wtf is this??!?

[JoeyJoeJoeJabadu]

So, SAMs start off very effective, especially if you have advanced SAM research and the radar network to support them, but get progressively less effective as you go on as they have 2 hard counters and one soft one. At the beginning, a pair of SAM launchers will slaughter bombers attempting to reach their targets, or decisively support fighter battles.

In mid-game with advanced anti-ballistic missiles and over horizon radar, they are extremely effective at protecting cities and bases, although not fool proof (you need a dense network, not just a few here and there).

However, they are counter able, especially in endgame. Stealth aircraft are a lot less vulnerable then standard aircraft (although they will still get shot down). Once your enemy has MIRVed ICBMs with decoys (the last and longest research line for ICBMs) SAM sites become ineffective against ICBMs. Hard counter that let's you ignore SAM sites, but not until very late. Often before that, hypersonic air launched ballistic missiles (so the end of two research lines) will also hard kill much more often then not (those missiles arent that effective against cities, but you can really roll back military infrastructure, including SAM sites, with them). These let you destroy SAM sites, but not ignore them.

So, bottom line, if you are expecting SAM sites to make you invulnerable, you should really think again. They are just a defensive tool. However as part of an integrated warfighting plan they are truly impossible to win without.

[FireWars763]

Another point to make is that SAM sites are not a replacement for fighter aircraft, which you should still have. If bombers annoy you (like they annoy me) its usually a good idea to launch a first strike on enemy airfields to prevent yourself from getting bullied by stealth bombers.

[H1tSc4n]

That's because you did not have any defending fighters.
SAM's are pretty good but they need to be supplemented with aircraft.
Otherwise they will struggle against more advanced bombers.
One bombers does not usually get through but if they launch many they will if there's no support.
You can also use destroyers to supplement your air defense, they are very effective.
Mobile SAMs are great because they can be relocated if you are only being attacked from one side, useful if your opponent only uses aircraft.

Early game SAMs are actually extremely good and nigh-impossible to bomb if not at a very high cost.

Advanced bombers will however often slip through unupgraded sams.

Oh, btw, ABM does NOT increase the anti-air capability of the SAM. Advanced SAM does that.
ABM ONLY adds an anti-missile capability and Advanced ABM ONLY upgrades the anti-missile capabilities.

[LORDCABOOSE]

It is also important to remember the short wave/long wave radar split. Because they are shown by the same color but long wave is longer ranged it is not uncommon to have gaps in your short wave coverage. This is important because long wave radar only provides detection. To provide targeting data, which is to say actually shoot the target, the target needs to be in range of your short wave radar. I believe that SAMs can piggyback off of radar sites short wave range, so putting your radars slightly forward lets you use more of the SAMs range though risking the radar site more. This is part of what makes AWACs so good, both its long wave and short wave radar have the same extended range (1500 upgraded if I remember right) which allows you to detect and engage stealth bombers at a decent rage. All that said there is really nothing SAMs can do against mirvs or a dedicated hypersonic attack, which is by design and fits thematically with the game.

[Croaker]

SAM are very effective early to mid game but 2 hours in game you can't count on them to shoot down a bunch of hypersonic missile or dozens of warhead launched simultaneously. You will need to intercept their bombers with your jet fighter and try to destroy their silos/mobile ICBM vehicule.

The reality is their isn't a full proof defense you will get nuked. The goal is to get nuked less.

[Brotious Rex]

I imagine that it is based on reality.

The post-boost phase bus with the payload travels at 17,000 miles per hour. The Reentry Vehicle(s) and the warhead(s) it carries re-enters the earth's atmosphere at 15,000 miles per hour. It might also maneuver to confuse ABM targeting predictions. It will deploy multiple penaids (hurrrr) designed to blind, confuse and decoy radar and missile targeting systems. The warhead it releases after reentry has slowed significantly to around 6,000 miles per hour and is surrounded by decoys. The time between re-entry to impact is less than 60 seconds.

So shooting down ICBMs is a really hard problem. Now consider a hypersonic weapon that may not go through reentry, or may be part of the reentry vehicle package that can maintain post-boost speeds, only inside the atmosphere, and may also avoid early detection by flying a flatter trajectory while being able to maneuver to avoid ABMs. If you don't even know there's a missile on the way until it is a minute from impact and you can't be sure exactly what it is targeting, good luck intercepting it.

And (at least for now) there's no clearly effective way to detect and target stealth planes, although the problem is being worked on. Longer-wave radar has been shown to detect stealth, but is generally not considered effective in targeting it.

So, like the dude above says, try to intercept with fighters and hope your ABMs can hit the ICBMs. Accept that you are going to get a bloody nose and make sure your second strike capability will be like the wrath of an angry god.

[Mr. Sweetchuck]

So 1 out of 10 for jumping the gun, and not the game itself?

[LoRd_D]

This game feels like it belongs as a mobile game on an phone not meant to be played on pc

[H1tSc4n]

Originally posted by LoRd_D:

This game feels like it belongs as a mobile game on an phone not meant to be played on pc

lol?

[detheagle666]

@LoRd_D

Can confirm no, my phone would explode in the late game phases if this was a mobile game. I've slowed the game down to the point that 4x speed was 1x speed equivalent. So. Many. SAMs. Getting the Pacifist achievement was rough lol