Legend of Mana

Legend of Mana

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肥鸽 Aug 24, 2021 @ 10:54am
Whats with the terrible character sprites?
Sorry, i really want to buy this, but all that time spent on reworking the backgrounds. They look absolutely gorgeous but the sprites r pure garbage. Why.....

Secret Of Mana was the best thing ever.

If i want to see sprites, i'll go back to an SNES and a PS1.

For God's sake we are in the era of 4k, thats 3840 x 2160, not 640 x 480.

I know people want to feel nostalgia and all that. Then go back to play the game on the PS1 and SNES. I have waited for eons just for someone to do a sprite rework on Chronotrigger. But i guess thats not happening. I want to play the game but i can't stand the stupid sprites.

@ least something to the standards of Final Fantasy VI. that was very very well done.
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Showing 1-15 of 16 comments
Mazzle Dazzle Aug 25, 2021 @ 3:24pm 
I feel the same. The sprites were a huge disappointment. The backgrounds look great and it just makes it look poor quality. I don't care if they use AI for 90% or it and just touch it up. It would look a lot less jarring. As it is, I use custom shaders and they help for sure. 2×SaI looks the best imo.
https://reshade.me/ you can also use that to tweak it.
Last edited by Mazzle Dazzle; Aug 25, 2021 @ 3:28pm
Yekkusu Aug 25, 2021 @ 6:54pm 
As far as I've read, they decided that because... I dunno, they just decided not to mess with the original sprites, they certainly could have added HD sprites, or even just made these sprites to look better on the 1080 resolution.

That being said, I have this game, the new OST is awesome, the game works pretty good even if not perfect, and considering Square Enix historic of fixing issues with their releases by using Nier Automata as an example, I doubt they will ever add newer sprites OR fix the stuttering for some people.
legaiaflame Aug 26, 2021 @ 6:02pm 
The best we can hope for is a fan mod that fixes and updates the sprites. That's it.
Codester Aug 28, 2021 @ 3:11pm 
Lol square can't win.
Every single time they have remastered or ported or tried to update one of their olds games. Everyone gets super angry about how they ruined the sprites. How dare they
Blablahblahblah.
So this time they thought, hey. Let's have the best of both worlds, let's update everything except the sprites. This will surely appease the fans :D.

"WhY are ThE sPrItEs So UgLy"
lol. Those poor devs.
legaiaflame Sep 1, 2021 @ 7:58pm 
It's not that hard to please everyone. Just put an option to turn on and off HD sprites or original sprites. Problem solved.
Mazzle Dazzle Sep 2, 2021 @ 3:37am 
Originally posted by Codester:
Lol square can't win.
Every single time they have remastered or ported or tried to update one of their olds games. Everyone gets super angry about how they ruined the sprites. How dare they
Blablahblahblah.
So this time they thought, hey. Let's have the best of both worlds, let's update everything except the sprites. This will surely appease the fans :D.

"WhY are ThE sPrItEs So UgLy"
lol. Those poor devs.
They can win, they are just doing it wrong over and over. They already changed Hamson in a very stupid way with that giant beard.
Ways they have done it wrong in the past: Secret of mana remaster- 3d with broken animations
Secret of mana mobile- broken animations.
final fantasy 1-3 - changed core gameplay elements to modify them

Reason this current system is wrong:
No toggleble option
They remastered the background but not the sprites so the quality difference is even more jarring than it would have been if they had done neither.
Framerates are unpredictable for users for a remaster of an old game that when played through an emulator and ran with texture shaders so it looks really good, runs better.
Setting encounters to off doesn't even work for all encounters.

I love legend of mana. It is my favorite game but I genuinely don't know if I should play off my playstation disk or the remaster because of how they handled it.


the backgrounds were never supposed to be sprite work and were in fact compressed non pixel art the aesthetic of the game was that of sprites on painted back drops the remaster is simply an evolution of that
Stormy Dawn Sep 14, 2021 @ 6:30pm 
Originally posted by Codester:
Lol square can't win.
Every single time they have remastered or ported or tried to update one of their olds games. Everyone gets super angry about how they ruined the sprites. How dare they
Blablahblahblah.
So this time they thought, hey. Let's have the best of both worlds, let's update everything except the sprites. This will surely appease the fans :D.

"WhY are ThE sPrItEs So UgLy"
lol. Those poor devs.

Yeah. That's pretty much how I feel about it.

I can't even go to a Community Forum for a Square Enix published and/or developed game without at least a handful of topics of people complaining about the most trivial things imaginable. I'm not sure where the massive hate-boner for SE started, but I'm getting sick of running into it all the time here on Steam.

As for the sprites, I don't really mind. It's hard to explain, but I feel it helps the game "pop" more. While the new background art is beautiful, maintaining the charm of the sprite work is appreciated to. I can see how it can be a bit jarring putting them together, but for me it works. I won't deny I have a thing for pixel artwork in any medium, so I won't pretend that I'm looking at this from an unbiased point of view, because I'm not, I totally am biased.
Mewi Sep 27, 2021 @ 4:43pm 
Why didn't they remaster all of the sprites!?

Answer:

https://www.spriters-resource.com/resources/sheets/37/39422.png
Last edited by Mewi; Sep 27, 2021 @ 4:43pm
ShinChuck Sep 27, 2021 @ 5:12pm 
Originally posted by Codester:
Lol square can't win.
Every single time they have remastered or ported or tried to update one of their olds games. Everyone gets super angry about how they ruined the sprites. How dare they
Blablahblahblah.
So this time they thought, hey. Let's have the best of both worlds, let's update everything except the sprites. This will surely appease the fans :D.

"WhY are ThE sPrItEs So UgLy"
lol. Those poor devs.
I don't think that's a fair framing of the issue, and I'm certain nobody on the dev team honestly believed that polishing half the game to a shine but leave the other half PS1-era would paradoxically make everyone happy.

Yes, there are people who are never happy, and we can agree that their opinion changes with the wind, and should rightfully be discarded! They can go be constantly miserable somewhere while we enjoy games like LoM.

But for a lot of us, it's not a "we want updates sprites/we don't want updated sprites" dichotomy. The FF6 port objectively worsened the sprites in numerous ways (there are some huge write-ups of genuine, loving criticism on this), while Legend of Mana kept the original graphics and just updated them--except for the sprites, making it seem like a missed opportunity and definitely clash a bit with the polished backdrops.

Is it gaming-ruining? No way! Are people missing out on a wonderful experience if they can't get over archaic sprites? Definitely (seriously, guys, I love this game--play it, don't let the sprites turn you away from it!).

And yet, I can still say it's a missed opportunity and comes off a bit half-baked and jarring to have updated everything except for the sprites. "We'd just like all aspects of the game given the same love and attention" is not the same as mindlessly playing the contrarian!
Kammy Sep 28, 2021 @ 2:55pm 
Originally posted by Valediction | inFo:
the backgrounds were never supposed to be sprite work and were in fact compressed non pixel art the aesthetic of the game was that of sprites on painted back drops the remaster is simply an evolution of that

This. This is the big thing I feel needs to be shouted to the high heavens. The backgrounds existed as proper 2D art before compression, so it was much easier to use AI upscaling and artists to "Remaster" Those backgrounds, fans have even done it for FF7 and Chrono Cross. But for sprites, even if they were traced from 2D Art (Like capcom did for some of their fighting games), they were still made with a completely different process that makes it a much more arduous process compared to the backgrounds. So either they fully redo all the sprites and every pixel art asset, and at that point sell it as a full blown remake, or slap a bad emulator filter on them like the grandia remaster did. Would it be cool if the sprites looked half as good as a vanillaware game? Yeah. Would it still be 30 dollars? Absolutely not.
Yekkusu Sep 28, 2021 @ 10:14pm 
Originally posted by Codester:
Lol square can't win.
Every single time they have remastered or ported or tried to update one of their olds games. Everyone gets super angry about how they ruined the sprites. How dare they
Blablahblahblah.
So this time they thought, hey. Let's have the best of both worlds, let's update everything except the sprites. This will surely appease the fans :D.

"WhY are ThE sPrItEs So UgLy"
lol. Those poor devs.
I agree but I also think this:
Why not a filter option to smooth the sprites?

And on those who are complaining about the artwork not matching the spritework: The original game had Images, paintings, not spriteworks. However it's compressed like hell, but it's freaking clear that's NOT pixelart. Even the most beautiful games on Pixel Art cannot get as close as an artwork like LoM, that's because the backgrounds are not pixel art.

To me the characters being pixelated is not a problem, but the chests and save tokens are.
Make them part of the scenary, that's not hard. You're just aggravating a problem that's there in our faces, I love the pixel art, the reason I would NEVER use a filter is because of the bosses awesome look, BUT the chests are just silly. You make some parts of the map interactable by looking like Sprites while others are interactable without looking like sprites, it confuses people. Especially the new people who never played the original XD
ShinChuck Sep 29, 2021 @ 12:42pm 
They couldn't use machine learning on the sprites and/or it would cost a ton more is, I think, speculation. Square Enix has completely redone character sprites on games they've released for cheaper (and have been relative successes). We've also seen what good AI can do with upscaling sprites as well from sometimes relatively small modding projects.

Maybe it would have been prohibitively expensive or difficult; maybe it wouldn't.

My guess? Square Enix is a company that wants to make money, and they were looking for the best profit to effort ratio, and this is what they decided was best.

Even so, the bottom line is there was certainly room for improvement, it certainly clashes, and people who let the sprites turn them off are only hurting themselves by missing out on this game! :)
Mewi Sep 29, 2021 @ 2:31pm 
If anyone looked at my link above, they'd see one set of animations for one NPC. Probably like 100 different images for one NPC? Insanity.

https://www.spriters-resource.com/resources/sheets/37/39422.png
ShinChuck Sep 30, 2021 @ 1:08pm 
Originally posted by Mewi:
If anyone looked at my link above, they'd see one set of animations for one NPC. Probably like 100 different images for one NPC? Insanity.

https://www.spriters-resource.com/resources/sheets/37/39422.png
Fer sure, there looks like a lot! (Granted, I'm no dev and couldn't tell you how many sprites is "a lot.") It very likely at least a part of reason why they didn't bother with the sprites; again, it's a corporation trying to maximize profit, which is a balancing act of guessing effort versus profit.

That being said, lesser developers can and have done it before, which lower costs to the player. There are also all sorts of neural network tools that could be utilized (potentially). I'm just joining you in taking guesses; only SE knows why they decided to do it this way and whether or not remastering the sprites would have been prohibitively difficult or expensive.
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