Bad party combinations

[SC_Nikki]

So we often talk about the best parties. But what about the worst?

Once, I decided to try a really weird party: Warrior, Red Mage, and TWO White Mages. I barely got to the Marsh Cave before I decided I just wasn't having any fun, and quit. Same deal with three Monks and one Red Mage.

You?

[Koby]

Worst party I'd think would likely be any configuration that is just 4 of the same class.

I suppose having 4 White Mages or 4 Thiefs would likely be the worst of the worst.

[HexGramarye]

It's hard to think of examples, which I think is a testament to how well balanced FF1 is. Every party shines for at least some part of the game, even something like four Fighters will just steamroll the late game.

And some of the "bad" parties are actually really fun to use. I just played through with two Thieves and two Red Mages and had a ton of fun compensating for the Red Mage's lack of group healing.

But there's a few that are sub-optimal and not fun, so I'm going right out with the controversial pick for worst party. ^_^'

Fighter
Monk
Black Mage
White Mage

Yeah, I think the Nintendo Power pick isn't a great way to experience FF1. There might be statistically worse options -- like swapping the White Mage in this party with a second Black Mage -- but I think it takes the cake in the sense that everyone says it's the best party or the ideal beginner party, and most people listen and make this their first party. However, I think this setup is pretty bad and gives new players a lackluster impression of what FF1 has to offer.

So the monk is a pretty boring choice when all the best gear comes from dungeon crawling. Ideally, you want two sword-users who can wear armor because the game gives you so much of that stuff in treasure chests, and there's nothing more deflating than not being able to use half the stuff you get. And despite all that, they're absurdly broken by the end, and, I don't know, the novelty of a Monk punching out Chaos in no time flat goes away after the seventh or eighth playthrough. It's like playing as Monk gets you to avoid interacting with the intended gameplay loop entirely -- skipping treasure chests, not being strategic about equipment, not buffing -- then rewards you for it.

The fighter got nerfed in the Pixel Remaster, with lower damage and accuracy, and it's weird how White Mage has almost as much HP now.

White Mage is cool.

Black Mage struggles in the mid- to endgame, and you'll be kicking yourself for not choosing a Red Mage or Thief instead.

So three out of four party are duds when paired together, making the ordinarily boring but practical White Mage the MVP, which speaks volumes.

[Help]

My current comp is a warrior, monk, red and white mage.

In my first plaything of the game I went warrior, thief, white and black.

Honestly the monk feels like it has more impact in terms of just deleting everything when getting some levels, I did a test earlier today and the monk unbuffed at max level can get around 18 hits I think it was landing 2k+ damage. So basically I’m deciding I’m going to take one as a late game curb stomper

I’m not sure how I feel on red mage though, versatility is good but the hip stay gain is terrible but then I guess he’s good when you’re out of spell points in combat.

I think worst party comp would be 4 thieves - would be better after promotion but early game could be hell also being very item dependent. Encounters in the marsh cave could suck as you’d have to flee ever other encounter for the physical resistant mobs

[bonebrah]

Once you get gauntlets, black mage robes, heal staffs etc most of the game is pretty trivial at that point.

But I'd say 4 white mages would struggle the most early game and with bosses.

[Pack 4 Potatoes]

In the old versions, 4 thieves would suck, before they got their current buff in damage. Theres no healing and the nerd in the group would have to use the Sun Sword.

[Pure Mind Games]

Originally posted by Sir Gramarye:

But there's a few that are sub-optimal and not fun, so I'm going right out with the controversial pick for worst party. ^_^'

Fighter
Monk
Black Mage
White Mage

I always use this party, the Monk/Master is an absolute power house.

[shsrpr]

Originally posted by Pure Mind Games:

Originally posted by Sir Gramarye:

But there's a few that are sub-optimal and not fun, so I'm going right out with the controversial pick for worst party. ^_^'

Fighter
Monk
Black Mage
White Mage

I always use this party, the Monk/Master is an absolute power house.

I know that Monk is great, but I always opt for two Fighters. And I think I finally understand why I prefer them over Monk. There are so many swords in the game that only Fighters can wield. And there seems to be just the right amount of them lying around to outfit two Fighters with comparably strong swords. When a better sword shows up, the top dog gets that one and the second in command gets the hand me downs. Same for armors... And for endgame you can even afford to give the Masamune to either of your mages because Excalibur and Sun Sword are both great for the Knights (especially hasted and tempered). But with Monk most of those swords just take up inventory space or get sold off. I know that's a good thing from a standpoint of gil and party upkeep overall, but there's practically always more than enough gil anyhow. But I do understand why people prefer having a Monk in their party.

Originally posted by Sir Gramarye:

Black Mage struggles in the mid- to endgame, and you'll be kicking yourself for not choosing a Red Mage or Thief instead.

I feel I need to stand up for black mages. Maybe they don't do as much attack damage as RM, but BW with CatClaws regularly does over 200 dmg at higher levels. Not too shabby, usually better than my WW with Thor's hammer. And I personally would rather have the BW's higher level black magic than RW mid-tier mixed magic or Ninja for much of the final dungeon.

[Pure Mind Games]

I just wish the mages got more than 9 MP per level or they had better attack stats, running out of MP half way through a dungeon or having them defend so you can save MP for the boss, isn't fun in my eyes.

I forget if it was Origins or the PSP version that fixed that by giving them the standard MP system.

[Koby]

Originally posted by Pure Mind Games:

I just wish the mages got more than 9 MP per level or they had better attack stats, running out of MP half way through a dungeon or having them defend so you can save MP for the boss, isn't fun in my eyes.

I forget if it was Origins or the PSP version that fixed that by giving them the standard MP system.

Eh.. having 9 spell casts of a certain spell or having 100 MP and a spell using 11 MP per cast... still ends up only being 9 casts. The MP system didn't magically give you lots of spell casting...

It's just different methods. Personally I prefer the level casting because it's how the games were meant to be and it's a different take on the tried & true spell system most jrpgs use.

Also makes you use spells you otherwise would forget about once higher tier spells become available thus keeping lower tier spells relevant.

In any case, you got Ethers to restore MP.

[Pure Mind Games]

Sure, but if you have 999MP you have 90 casts. towards the late game the lower tier spells become next to useless.

[Koby]

Originally posted by Pure Mind Games:

Sure, but if you have 999MP you have 90 casts. towards the late game the lower tier spells become next to useless.

You'd be using the high tier spells if you had 999 MP as it'd be late game... and those spells wouldn't be 11MP. Firaga, Blizzaga, Thundaga is usually 30-40 MP, Meteor is 99MP (not in FF1 iirc but just used as example), Flare is like 40-55 depending on the game. So it's not like a huge difference in casting amount. Of course Thundaga would be more like 25 casts... but you'd still only be able to cast Meteor 9 times in such an example.

So... as I said the MP system didn't magically give you lots of spell casting... It simply gave you a bit more freedom of choice in regards to how you spent it, instead of breaking spells down into different tiers/levels.

With Ethers being readily available though... it makes it matter even less as it simply comes down to how often you'll have to use them, rather than really affecting how you use the spells.

The only real issue here is they capped it at 9 charges per level, but they remedied that in FF3 and it's kind of neat how the job class affects how much of each level you get individually so that certain jobs grow certain spell levels better.

[Pack 4 Potatoes]

Originally posted by Koby:

Originally posted by Pure Mind Games:

Sure, but if you have 999MP you have 90 casts. towards the late game the lower tier spells become next to useless.

Sure, but then you're factoring in low tier spells. If you've got 999 MP, you'd most likely be using the high tier spells at end game... which for some of these games are 50 to 99 MP per cast. Therefore again... only maybe 9 casts before MP is gone.

It's actually more like 20 casts as flare costs 40 mp, iirc. However, the fact that eithers are added just compounds the issue of making the game easier. I wouldn't mind an MP system if thought was put into balancing it.

[Sephiroth]

you can solo using any job....chaos will be hard tho

[utopia570]

A combo i never see and am curious about. Warrior, white mage, 2 black mages. Can someone explain the pros and cons of this setup?

[Drain]

Now there is a bad necro.