You don't always have to reinvent the wheel.

[Shien]

I'm not going to sit here and trash talk the game, because I don't think that bleak faith is a bad game. I am however, going to categorically say that, the idea to not have Iframes in this game, was an absolutely bad idea and the devs should work on adding Iframes first thing when they wake up. I am so disheartened to see an otherwise rather fun combat system, plus a lot of bosses that could be really good, be an exercise in boredom, face tanking and damage trading instead of a really fun and rewarding experience with a high skill gap. Add Iframes immediately. This isn't even a rage post, I really like the game and I do enjoy the combat and how heavy everything feels. But the lack of Iframes really make the experience a slog.

In before some purist comes around to say "Acthuallyy no IframEs MeaNS blah blah" nope, don't care and you are also wrong. Iframes give the game a skill ladder, lack of Iframes nerfs slow weapons in many occasions and turns combat into a kite, wait for the enemy to start an animation, hit him once, goto1. (I don't mention parrying because you can't parry bosses)

[Outsider]

You can beat the game without i-frames.
Enemies and bosses are designed for player to not have i-frames.
If you want invincibility so much use cheat engine or something.

[Shien]

Originally posted by Outsider:

You can beat the game without i-frames.
Enemies and bosses are designed for player to not have i-frames.
If you want invincibility so much use cheat engine or something.

Of course you can beat the game without Iframes, so what? I never said you can't I said it's not fun and it doesn't promote skillful play. Iframes give depth to the combat system, removing them turns 99% of engagements into the same thing. Parry or kite.

[Kurteous]

Honestly, I find the lack of I-frames to be an actual breath of fresh air because now I am forced to reconsider my every moves anytime I want to attack or make a quick back-step/roll. I even found out that some of the heavy attacks and combos allow you to dodge while making your assault on certain enemies.

Colored me surprise that a heavy Claymore attack can lead to ducking and doing an under swing at the same time. Marvelous.

[Shien]

Originally posted by Kurteous:

Honestly, I find the lack of I-frames to be an actual breath of fresh air because now I am forced to reconsider my every moves anytime I want to attack or make a quick back-step/roll. I even found out that some of the heavy attacks and combos allow you to dodge while making your assault on certain enemies.

Colored me surprise that a heavy Claymore attack can lead to ducking and doing an under swing at the same time. Marvelous.

You understand that Iframes don't stop any of what you are saying from happening right? Or are you going to tell me that you played other souls like games or the fromsoft games and just run around willy nilly because you had Iframes? No, of course you didn't. Because Iframes don't make you extremely powerful until you've learned how to use them to their full extent. Something you can't do if the game doesn't have em

[Kurteous]

Originally posted by Shien:

You understand that Iframes don't stop any of what you are saying from happening right? Or are you going to tell me that you played other souls like games or the fromsoft games and just run around willy nilly because you had Iframes? No, of course you didn't. Because Iframes don't make you extremely powerful until you've learned how to use them to their full extent. Something you can't do if the game doesn't have em

With I-frames, I was actually a lot more impulsive with my dodging instead of using blocks and parries for the most part. Only Soulsborne game I've played is Remnant: From the Ashes, Outward, The Surge 1&2, and Code Vein. None of that mainstream original Souls games, so I couldn't tell you accurately about their I-frames.

But, like I said, Bleak Faith's lack of I-frames is quite the eye opener. Dodging becomes a calculated move depending on the opponent's attacks whether it can parried or block and enemy movesets tend to be unpredictable almost every few seconds, so I have to react faster in between dodging that attack or tanking it with a parry/dodge.

But hey, you do you. I'm kind of happy with this change, despite how difficult it was to learn this game and its jank.

[Sailor Gloom]

iframes favor reaction over all else.
No iframes favors thoughtful positioning and timing.

Its nice for a change. the souls games have really boiled every encounter down to molesting your dodge button then r1 spam in between. I like having a different approach.

[Shien]

Originally posted by Sailor Gloom:

iframes favor reaction over all else.
No iframes favors thoughtful positioning and timing.

Its nice for a change. the souls games have really boiled every encounter down to molesting your dodge button then r1 spam in between. I like having a different approach.

You are so absolutely wrong it's not even funny, every souls game, regardless of Iframes, has a huge emphasis on positioning yourself properly to avoid as much damage as possible whilst dpsing. Being really good with Iframes simply allows you to position yourself even better as well as being able to avoid 360 abilities that otherwise force you to run away from the boss/mob. The difference between a good souls player is that he almost never has to run away from the boss. In bleak faith. Either you trial and error the boss until you find all the spots where attacks just miss you or you run kite. No depth or skill cap whatsoever.

[Kurteous]

Originally posted by Shien:

You are so absolutely wrong it's not even funny, every souls game, regardless of Iframes, has a huge emphasis on positioning yourself properly to avoid as much damage as possible whilst dpsing. Being really good with Iframes simply allows you to position yourself even better as well as being able to avoid 360 abilities that otherwise force you to run away from the boss/mob. The difference between a good souls player is that he almost never has to run away from the boss. In bleak faith. Either you trial and error the boss until you find all the spots where attacks just miss you or you run kite. No depth or skill cap whatsoever.

You keep saying that we are wrong and that I-frames also takes skills in learning how to properly fight enemies and bosses, when really it's just a matter of mashing the dodge button and attacking afterwards. That's basically kiting in itself as well.

Bleak Faith also does that, and more, with careful consideration of not being in harm's way by making sure you aren't in the direct pathway of the attacks in the first place or the second follow through after taking care of the opponent's first move.

But I supposed you don't really care about what other people have to say and would rather listen to your own voice than to be open-minded.

To each, their own.

[Shien]

Originally posted by Kurteous:

Originally posted by Shien:

You are so absolutely wrong it's not even funny, every souls game, regardless of Iframes, has a huge emphasis on positioning yourself properly to avoid as much damage as possible whilst dpsing. Being really good with Iframes simply allows you to position yourself even better as well as being able to avoid 360 abilities that otherwise force you to run away from the boss/mob. The difference between a good souls player is that he almost never has to run away from the boss. In bleak faith. Either you trial and error the boss until you find all the spots where attacks just miss you or you run kite. No depth or skill cap whatsoever.

You keep saying that we are wrong and that I-frames also takes skills in learning how to properly fight enemies and bosses, when really it's just a matter of mashing the dodge button and attacking afterwards. That's basically kiting in itself as well.

Bleak Faith also does that, and more, with careful consideration of not being in harm's way by making sure you aren't in the direct pathway of the attacks in the first place or the second follow through after taking care of the opponent's first move.

But I supposed you don't really care about what other people have to say and would rather listen to your own voice than to be open-minded.

To each, their own.

When someone is making factually incorrect statements such as "all you do is mash the dodge button" and "Iframes require no positioning" I will tell you that you are absolutely wrong to an extreme degree. I wont sugar coat it, you are wrong. Plain and simple. Why don't you go get elden ring and try mashing the dodge button? See how well this goes for you.

The fact of the matter is, elden ring, bloodborne or ds3 for example, requires way more positioning awareness than bleak faith. That's not an attack on the game, it is a fact however which immediately and completely dismantles all the pointless arguments about "positioning" and "thinking about your every move". Iframes don't take away from this aspect, in fact. If you want to master the combat, you need to be way better with positioning yourself properly in order to be able to weave between the enemy attacks and deliver damage yourself. Something you can't do in bleak faith whenever the boss has an aoe. Your only options are to either, run away or, block. Which are both a sum zero in regards to progressing the fight. You are free to disagree as much as you want and say all the "to each their own" as you like. But mechanically you are simply wrong.

[Kurteous]

Originally posted by Shien:

Originally posted by Kurteous:

You keep saying that we are wrong and that I-frames also takes skills in learning how to properly fight enemies and bosses, when really it's just a matter of mashing the dodge button and attacking afterwards. That's basically kiting in itself as well.

Bleak Faith also does that, and more, with careful consideration of not being in harm's way by making sure you aren't in the direct pathway of the attacks in the first place or the second follow through after taking care of the opponent's first move.

But I supposed you don't really care about what other people have to say and would rather listen to your own voice than to be open-minded.

To each, their own.

When someone is making factually incorrect statements such as "all you do is mash the dodge button" and "Iframes require no positioning" I will tell you that you are absolutely wrong to an extreme degree. I wont sugar coat it, you are wrong. Plain and simple. Why don't you go get elden ring and try mashing the dodge button? See how well this goes for you.

The fact of the matter is, elden ring, bloodborne or ds3 for example, requires way more positioning awareness than bleak faith. That's not an attack on the game, it is a fact however which immediately and completely dismantles all the pointless arguments about "positioning" and "thinking about your every move". Iframes don't take away from this aspect, in fact. If you want to master the combat, you need to be way better with positioning yourself properly in order to be able to weave between the enemy attacks and deliver damage yourself. Something you can't do in bleak faith whenever the boss has an aoe. Your only options are to either, run away or, block. Which are both a sum zero in regards to progressing the fight. You are free to disagree as much as you want and say all the "to each their own" as you like. But mechanically you are simply wrong.

And I could go on and on through my explanation of how other games with I-frames is mainly dodging before an attack, after an attack, and enemies also doing AOE attacks much like Bleak Faith, but I would simply be called 'wrong' for my analysis because your argument is considered superior within your own eyes as if you need to prove that you are always right.

And yet, I simply speak what I have observed and say my piece without getting into your face about it. Without needing to 'win' this argument.

I grow tired of this charade. If you do not want to explain further as to why I-frames are necessary and just simply a cover blanket for not getting hits when it should not be possible, then there is no point into this conversation.

[Shien]

Originally posted by Kurteous:

Originally posted by Shien:

When someone is making factually incorrect statements such as "all you do is mash the dodge button" and "Iframes require no positioning" I will tell you that you are absolutely wrong to an extreme degree. I wont sugar coat it, you are wrong. Plain and simple. Why don't you go get elden ring and try mashing the dodge button? See how well this goes for you.

The fact of the matter is, elden ring, bloodborne or ds3 for example, requires way more positioning awareness than bleak faith. That's not an attack on the game, it is a fact however which immediately and completely dismantles all the pointless arguments about "positioning" and "thinking about your every move". Iframes don't take away from this aspect, in fact. If you want to master the combat, you need to be way better with positioning yourself properly in order to be able to weave between the enemy attacks and deliver damage yourself. Something you can't do in bleak faith whenever the boss has an aoe. Your only options are to either, run away or, block. Which are both a sum zero in regards to progressing the fight. You are free to disagree as much as you want and say all the "to each their own" as you like. But mechanically you are simply wrong.

And I could go on and on through my explanation of how other games with I-frames is mainly dodging before an attack, after an attack, and enemies also doing AOE attacks much like Bleak Faith, but I would simply be called 'wrong' for my analysis because your argument is considered superior within your own eyes as if you need to prove that you are always right.

And yet, I simply speak what I have observed and say my piece without getting into your face about it. Without needing to 'win' this argument.

I grow tired of this charade. If you do not want to explain further as to why I-frames are necessary and just simply a cover blanket for not getting hits when it should not be possible, then there is no point into this conversation.

I've explained plenty of times why Iframes are a better system. Because it promotes a more active and skillful play style that's not reliant of always kiting and being passive until the enemy is stun locked by his own animations or parried 13 times until it dies. Because no Iframes means that, whenever a boss has AOE's your only 2 options are. Block, lose half your stamina and not punish the boss, or run, lose half your stamina and not punish the boss or set up a punish through positioning, ironically. Because you just can't be near the boss if it's gonna do a 360. It's really simple actually, having Iframes gives more tools for skillful, proactive gameplay. Removing them promotes a turtle gamestyle in many situations (apart from mages where you have to mindlessly rush them or snipe them) and makes combat sluggish, almost turning it into a glorified turn based combat system, where you wait for your enemy to do his part, then damage him once or twice rinse and repeat until boss dead, in contrast with other games like bleak faith where you play more aggressively if you want to. Higher risk, but higher reward. You can't do that in bleak faith because there is no reward.

Also, you said that in games with Iframes are mainly dodging attacks, which is the exact same thing you do in bleak faith. The only difference being in bleak faith, if the attack is an AOE you always dodge out, if it is not an AOE you preemptively dodge to the side the attack wont hit you. So, instead of having the option to take advantage of your Iframes and not run away from the boss because it does an AOE you just have to run away or block the hit. Which again, is a zero sum on the counter in progressing the fight. And also, one last thing I wanna touch on, you whine because I am not "open minded" (as if open mindedness means accepting every bad argument someone does" and bring up your personal experience of games with Iframes being dodge button mashing sims. All I want to say is that, if whenever you played any game with Iframes you where mashing the dodge button and that worked, then the game was trash (and judging by some games you brought up, they are) but having finished remnants myself, I can say with absolute certainty that, mindlessly mashing dodge will not get you far at all, and if you ever find yourself in a position where you need to spam dodge, then you where out of position and should learn to position yourself properly. All your complains about games with Iframes being dodge spams frankly sound to me a lot more like skill issues, rather than issues with the mechanic itself.

[Kurteous]

A wall of text explaining basically what I-frames already is in most Fromsoft games, along with multiple counts of ad hominem toward my preference of other games and that I lack skills if I were to play an actual 'True Soulsborne'.

I rest my case. Good day to you.

[Napalm®]

They chose quite a few game play mechanics to put them apart from other games.
Some more successful than others if I might add..

[thedeadmanshow87]

Honestly I forgot all about i-frames while playing this. In the first hour of the game, i already adapted to this style, and honestly I absolutely love it.Positioning is more important, and tactics now..Sometimes different is better, in bleak faith, that difference is better to me. Makes it stand apart more as well.
I understand the logic though, but seems like most of us dont really care about the i-frames.

[ColonelBaker]

At first I didn't like the absence of i-frames but after playing more of the game I think I prefer to not have them. If they did add them it would have to be a very small window, nothing close to the generous window in Souls games.