Why you shouldn't by a Founder's Pack

[Jet Uppercut]

1> How many "free" MMOs that launched with Founder's exclusive betas have you heard of, that are still alive today? Not very many. Maplestory 2? Dead. Firefall? Dead. Tree of Savior? Dead. Mythos? Dead. Gigantic? Dead. We could probably list these games all day. The fact there's no free keys being handed out anywhere and there wasn't even a public beta for people to even play it before buying it? Just further proof this game is a complete cashgrab.
But hey I'm sure there's at least one person in here still enjoying Battlerite. Or not.
And don't say Path of Exile, because they were handing out beta keys like candy. You could definitely play that for free. I know I did.

2> The market audience for a paid exclusive founder's beta, are people too impatient to wait for your game to launch for free. So impatient, they will impulse buy access to it. Anybody with a functioning brain should be able to figure out that impatient people don't like waiting. So if you're expecting a sudden influx of other people's money to play your "free game", you should probably put a little bit of money in advance making sure those people can play it.
Apparently that's a wild concept to some people. But if they didn't care enough to even try to anticipate this, or respect their players enough to actually apologise and get it fixed instead of offering excuses... Well, I don't think that bodes well for the rest of the game.

3> This isn't an Early Access game. The game is functionally feature complete. They already have 2 seasons of planned "Live Service" content for this Founder's period and a full cash shop. They are blatantly misappropriating the Early Access title to try and stave off legitimate criticism, despite offering absolutely zero places to give feedback like an Early Access game should. A problem I noted during the closed beta. Are you paying to receive "Early Access"? Yes. But this is not a game that is in the middle of it's development. There is nothing stopping them from making it a free game right now, except that they want as much launch hype money as they can get.
Does that sound like something a trustworthy developer would do? No. And if EA or Blizzard or any other big AAA company did it, you'd be screaming.

Do I care whether you waste your money on this game? Not really. I already played it and didn't like it. But I just thought I would give some food for thought for anybody thinking about biting the bullet.

[Dementid]

Considering the maker of one of the best multiplayer games that started with a closed founders access period is the one publishing this, I have decent faith this will turn out alright.

Digital Extremes is the creator of Warframe, which had a closed Founders access period.

[Jet Uppercut]

Originally posted by Dementid:

Considering the maker of one of the best multiplayer games that started with a closed founders access period is the one publishing this, I have decent faith this will turn out alright.

Digital Extremes is the creator of Warframe, which had a closed Founders access period.

Warframe did not start out as a closed Founder's beta. You also didn't need a Founder's pack to play the Open Beta. Source: I was there. I have a Lato Vandal. Which doesn't prove anything anymore, but it used to mean something I guess.

[Hollow-Enigma]

Originally posted by Jet Uppercut:

Originally posted by Dementid:

Considering the maker of one of the best multiplayer games that started with a closed founders access period is the one publishing this, I have decent faith this will turn out alright.

Digital Extremes is the creator of Warframe, which had a closed Founders access period.

Warframe did not start out as a closed Founder's beta. You also didn't need a Founder's pack to play the Open Beta. Source: I was there. I have a Lato Vandal. Which doesn't prove anything anymore, but it used to mean something I guess.

It did though :|
The founders program started December 2012 in closed beta, keys available in founders packs. With founders packs still accessible when open beta started in march till near the end of the year.

[Jet Uppercut]

Originally posted by Hollow-Enigma:

Originally posted by Jet Uppercut:

Warframe did not start out as a closed Founder's beta. You also didn't need a Founder's pack to play the Open Beta. Source: I was there. I have a Lato Vandal. Which doesn't prove anything anymore, but it used to mean something I guess.

It did though :|
The founders program started December 2012 in closed beta, keys available in founders packs. With founders packs still accessible when open beta started in march till near the end of the year.

You could get beta keys for free. You didn't have to pay anything to play Warframe's beta.

[Quagimus Decimus]

Originally posted by Dementid:

Considering the maker of one of the best multiplayer games that started with a closed founders access period is the one publishing this, I have decent faith this will turn out alright.

Digital Extremes is the creator of Warframe, which had a closed Founders access period.

What are you smoking.. I was a alpha tester for warframe nothing was paid besides the $250 founders pack.. which not a whole lot of people were crazy to spend on. It's value became apparent years ahead when the game finally had some direction.. but it wasn't smooth sailing.. I still remember the old dated UI, and all it's connectivity issues.. which took them YEARS to get to resolving to some degree... Not to mention DE's reputation for releasing broken content patches.. I guess you don't remember all those countless hotfixes we were bombarded with, and months of patches to fix major content releases? Yea no one would remember that little tid bit at all.

[Dementid]

There was a period of closed Beta that the primary way to gain access was via the Founders packages. While it was technically possible to get into the closed beta other ways, the vast majority were via Founders packages (or via friend codes from someone else's founder package).

From the Warframe Wiki:
"Additionally, if the player had yet to access Warframe's Closed Beta, purchasing a Founders Package would instantly gain access to it."

I propose that the fact that some amount of people playing may have gotten in via non-founders means does not differentiate this enough from Wayfinder in this instance. A back and forth on this becomes nonviable if we cannot agree on this in absence of more data, though if additional data is available that may change perspective on this, I am certainly open to changing my opinion.

[Dementid]

Originally posted by Quagalicious:

What are you smoking.. I was a alpha tester for warframe nothing was paid besides the $250 founders pack.. which not a whole lot of people were crazy to spend on. It's value became apparent years ahead when the game finally had some direction.. but it wasn't smooth sailing.. I still remember the old dated UI, and all it's connectivity issues.. which took them YEARS to get to resolving to some degree... Not to mention DE's reputation for releasing broken content patches.. I guess you don't remember all those countless hotfixes we were bombarded with, and months of patches to fix major content releases? Yea no one would remember that little tid bit at all.

This game has also gone through testing periods that did not require a founders package.

DE fixing what was broken, in order to provide my thousands of hours of entertainment is exactly why I have confidence this game will go through a similar process to achieve a similar result.

[Hollow-Enigma]

Originally posted by Jet Uppercut:

Originally posted by Hollow-Enigma:

It did though :|
The founders program started December 2012 in closed beta, keys available in founders packs. With founders packs still accessible when open beta started in march till near the end of the year.

You could get beta keys for free. You didn't have to pay anything to play Warframe's beta.

If you got lucky, but founders packs were still a guaranteed way of getting in. Still pretty much a founders beta.

[The Key of Diary]

buy, not by

[Quagimus Decimus]

Originally posted by Dementid:

Originally posted by Quagalicious:

What are you smoking.. I was a alpha tester for warframe nothing was paid besides the $250 founders pack.. which not a whole lot of people were crazy to spend on. It's value became apparent years ahead when the game finally had some direction.. but it wasn't smooth sailing.. I still remember the old dated UI, and all it's connectivity issues.. which took them YEARS to get to resolving to some degree... Not to mention DE's reputation for releasing broken content patches.. I guess you don't remember all those countless hotfixes we were bombarded with, and months of patches to fix major content releases? Yea no one would remember that little tid bit at all.

This game has also gone through testing periods that did not require a founders package.

DE fixing what was broken, in order to provide my thousands of hours of entertainment is exactly why I have confidence this game will go through a similar process to achieve a similar result.

Except DE isn't fixing anything they're the publisher.
I was a closed beta tester for this game, and it's nothing impressive, and it sure as hell isn't nowhere near as good as warframe. With several mmo's in development right now that will without a doubt kill it. -but hey, when you see $150 founders packs.. you know they're struggling. If you really believe they're going to survive after 6 months.. I got some swamp land for sale.

[Dementid]

Originally posted by Quagalicious:

Except DE isn't fixing anything they're the publisher.
I was a closed beta tester for this game, and it's nothing impressive, and it sure as hell isn't nowhere near as good as warframe. With several mmo's in development right now that will without a doubt kill it. -but hey, when you see $150 founders packs.. you know they're struggling. If you really believe they're going to survive after 6 months.. I got some swamp land for sale.

From DE - indicating publisher involvement in providing relevant fixes:
"We apologize - we know players have high expectations of DE’s infrastructure to deliver in moments like this, and in this instance we, as the publisher, fell short.

We’re committed to ensuring long term stability through the early access period. We are thankful for the enthusiasm and interest of our community and for your continued patience as we close in on a permanent solution.”"

[Jet Uppercut]

Originally posted by Hollow-Enigma:

Originally posted by Jet Uppercut:

You could get beta keys for free. You didn't have to pay anything to play Warframe's beta.

If you got lucky, but founders packs were still a guaranteed way of getting in. Still pretty much a founders beta.

They literally gave away thousands of them on sites like MMORPG and Fileplanet and other dead websites nobody uses anymore. Plus everyone that bought Founder's access got loads of extra keys to giveaway too. It wasn't a hard beta to get into towards the end.

Originally posted by LootFruit:

buy, not by

How's the queue?

[Hollow-Enigma]

Originally posted by Quagalicious:

Originally posted by Dementid:

This game has also gone through testing periods that did not require a founders package.

DE fixing what was broken, in order to provide my thousands of hours of entertainment is exactly why I have confidence this game will go through a similar process to achieve a similar result.

Except DE isn't fixing anything they're the publisher.
I was a closed beta tester for this game, and it's nothing impressive, and it sure as hell isn't nowhere near as good as warframe. With several mmo's in development right now that will without a doubt kill it. -but hey, when you see $150 founders packs.. you know they're struggling. If you really believe they're going to survive after 6 months.. I got some swamp land for sale.

You know till it gets to that point your prediction has just as much value as any other. Results will speak for themselves.

[Hollow-Enigma]

Originally posted by Jet Uppercut:

Originally posted by Hollow-Enigma:

If you got lucky, but founders packs were still a guaranteed way of getting in. Still pretty much a founders beta.

They literally gave away thousands of them on sites like MMORPG and Fileplanet and other dead websites nobody uses anymore. Plus everyone that bought Founder's access got loads of extra keys to giveaway too. It wasn't a hard beta to get into towards the end.

Originally posted by LootFruit:

buy, not by

How's the queue?

No matter how many they gave away, as long as there is disparity between players it classifies as exclusive.

[Jet Uppercut]

Originally posted by Hollow-Enigma:

Originally posted by Jet Uppercut:

They literally gave away thousands of them on sites like MMORPG and Fileplanet and other dead websites nobody uses anymore. Plus everyone that bought Founder's access got loads of extra keys to giveaway too. It wasn't a hard beta to get into towards the end.



How's the queue?

No matter how many they gave away, as long as there is disparity between players it classifies as exclusive.

Compared to Wayfinder which has given away zero keys, it is not exclusive. Also, I could actually play Warframe, unlike anybody that actually paid for this. But hey, you keep arguing semantics with someone that was actually there for both closed betas. This is nothing like Warframe.