Playing as melee feels bad

[???]

Now, maybe I'm just doing it wrong and by all means, I'd love it if someone could correct me on what I am doing incorrectly here, but melee in this game just kind of blows. With how limited your range is, and how fast/spammy bosses are you're lucky you can hit most of them, let alone do so while avoiding getting chunked for like a fourth of your HP, something none of the other major archetypes have to worry about and unless you're punching down on a boss that's a few tiers below you, the armor increase doesn't even feel like it matters nor does the damage of a melee character feel at all worth how much you lose out on with the bosses constantly vanishing out of range while everyone else can just do constant damage near on par with yours hit for hit.

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Messaggio originale di VaderDFXB:

Messaggio originale di Fair:

Definitely room for improvement in the melee class :)

I had a feeling going melee wouldn't quite work amazingly in this game, it's terrible for fighting bosses, which is the same issue Terraria has with melee. The dev confirming that it's lackluster means I should probably try switching to a ranged build even though smacking stuff in the face is fun. Ah well, hopefully it can get a bit of a buff at some point maybe in the form of melee oriented armours being tougher and melee weapons getting some clever modifiers/changes.

Yeah you wind up with the same consolations that terraria does - which is that every reasonable end-game melee weapon either shoots projectiles (though in this game the projectiles have really, really, poor range) or are "ranged" melee weapons which kind of defeats the whole purpose.

[VaderDFXB]

Messaggio originale di ???:

Yeah you wind up with the same consolations that terraria does - which is that every reasonable end-game melee weapon either shoots projectiles (though in this game the projectiles have really, really, poor range) or are "ranged" melee weapons which kind of defeats the whole purpose.

It's unfortunate but it kinda needs to be done here too. Either that or like I said make melee armour provide obscene amounts of protection to the point where it'd break the game. For now though I'll be giving ranged weaponry a whirl and seeing how that goes. Not sure about magic since I haven't touched that and unlike Terraria there doesn't seem to be a mana system as far as I can tell but I'm new to the game and kinda clueless about what I'm doing.

[b0tkoala]

I did a melee only play through and I did not really have any problems with any bosses but Cryo queen. My only problem with Cryo queen was I just was failing to dodge attacks in the correct direction. Melee for me was one of the easier play throughs. Magic only was harder in my opinion. I am still finishing up ranged Only. My advice for melee is make use of boomerangs. They count as melee. Starting out the heavy hammer is a good ranged melee weapon. Then switch to void boomerangs. I usually prefer spear and boomerang until I get Reaper Scythe. Swords are too dangerous to use on bosses unless you are 100% confident in dodging the boss mechanics. But once you get reaper scythe you dont really need any other weapon. You can still use boomerangs if you feel you need more range. For me melee was the easiest playthrough so far followed by ranged then magic. Summoner was easy all the way up to the final boss. The final boss was an absolutely horrednous fight for summon only.

[b0tkoala]

Additionally if trying to get in close to use swords or glaives I would recommend using more tanky armor sets such as demonic armor set or tungsten armor set. You will lose out on dps and movement speed, but you will gain a lot more armor. But being close to bosses also means you need to understand their mechanics. Knowing when to move away to dodge certain attacks and knowing when you can move in to get hits in is important.

[Kai]

Maybe add a new content meant for combat classes and utility classes for melee weapons:

Techniques - You unlock it for each of the weapon types, and allows you to hold the attack button to charge up the technique for that weapon, depending on the function, and release the button to unleash the move. You will still auto-attack while charging, but you will unleash your move for when you stop attacking (let go of the button)

Sword = Wave Slash (Shoots a projectile to knock back a target).
Hammer = Shockwave (Slam the ground which slows nearby targets briefly).
Axe = Windmill (Spin rapidly to hit multiple times, with the final hit launching the target away).
Spear = Sweep (Swing widely and knock back targets).

[VaderDFXB]

Well I think I figured out some of the issues with melee that should be an easy fix. Firstly your character slows down when attacking or using tools. I know there's a trinket that halves that but it honestly that mechanic just needs to go, it ruins the pacing of fights. Secondly the player's base speed is too slow. Bump that by 50% and it'll not only make getting around less annoying but will help with melee in fights. Thirdly some bosses are too fast. I just fought the pirate boss and when they magically spawn a ship under their butt and start flying around, which is incredibly stupid and frustrating by the way(and happens at 80% health which is far too early in the fight), they're a nightmare to try and fight as a melee character. I had to SLOWLY whittle them down using a bow and that wasn't fun at all.

Just some suggestions to make the pacing and melee combat better. At least bump the player's speed up a bit and remove the slowdown when attacking at the minimum.

[b0tkoala]

Messaggio originale di VaderDFXB:

Well I think I figured out some of the issues with melee that should be an easy fix. Firstly your character slows down when attacking or using tools. I know there's a trinket that halves that but it honestly that mechanic just needs to go, it ruins the pacing of fights. Secondly the player's base speed is too slow. Bump that by 50% and it'll not only make getting around less annoying but will help with melee in fights. Thirdly some bosses are too fast. I just fought the pirate boss and when they magically spawn a ship under their butt and start flying around, which is incredibly stupid and frustrating by the way(and happens at 80% health which is far too early in the fight), they're a nightmare to try and fight as a melee character. I had to SLOWLY whittle them down using a bow and that wasn't fun at all.

Just some suggestions to make the pacing and melee combat better. At least bump the player's speed up a bit and remove the slowdown when attacking at the minimum.

Just use boomerangs..... If you are finding it hard to hit with melee weapons then use the void boomerangs or razor blade from swamp boss. Also Pirate boss is completely doable with spear. Easier with boomerang though. Swords are not great. Also there are trinkets to increase your movememt speed as well as armor. You can enchant your armor and trinkets for more movement speed as well. The slow down mechanic is what makes the fights more challenging. You cant just spin around bosses easily to win. You actually have to learn the mechanics of the boss. So I really dont think the slow down mechanic Should be removed. Otherwise you would need to change the bosses to make it challenging again. If you would like to know what i mean get to the deep snow cave and get full ninja armor. The set armor removes the slow down effect. With ranged this was incredibly overpowered and made the fight against cryo queen, sage and grit, and fallen wizard ridiculously easy.

[b0tkoala]

Also bows suck. Dont use them. If you are going to use anything ranged then use guns. Much better dmg and faster. Also with void bullets you dont have to worry about aiming.

[VaderDFXB]

So what I'm getting is that some weapons types should be avoided entirely which frankly sucks. I guess I'll be trying boomerangs and spears at some point then.

[b0tkoala]

Messaggio originale di VaderDFXB:

So what I'm getting is that some weapons types should be avoided entirely which frankly sucks. I guess I'll be trying boomerangs and spears at some point then.

aeasy.
As of now swords and glaives are only good vs regular mobs. Vs bosses you want spear, boomerang, or special ranged melee weapon like heavy hammer or reaper scythe.

[VaderDFXB]

Messaggio originale di ttv/b0tkoala:

As of now swords and glaives are only good vs regular mobs. Vs bosses you want spear, boomerang, or special ranged melee weapon like heavy hammer or reaper scythe.

Tried both boomerangs and a spear. Spears are much worse than swords. They can only hit in a very specific area and are utterly useless if something gets in your face, plus their reach really isn't much better.

Boomerangs are decent and actually give a melee character some range. I have a stack of four of them which really doesn't feel as powerful as it should. Only reason to have multiple is if you miss since you have to usually wait a while before they come back. The main advantage of them is they don't consume ammo compared to guns. Now I need to try guns next and magic too.

[b0tkoala]

Messaggio originale di VaderDFXB:

Messaggio originale di ttv/b0tkoala:

As of now swords and glaives are only good vs regular mobs. Vs bosses you want spear, boomerang, or special ranged melee weapon like heavy hammer or reaper scythe.

Tried both boomerangs and a spear. Spears are much worse than swords. They can only hit in a very specific area and are utterly useless if something gets in your face, plus their reach really isn't much better.

Boomerangs are decent and actually give a melee character some range. I have a stack of four of them which really doesn't feel as powerful as it should. Only reason to have multiple is if you miss since you have to usually wait a while before they come back. The main advantage of them is they don't consume ammo compared to guns. Now I need to try guns next and magic too.

Maybe melee just isn't your style of play. Like I said in a previous post. Knowing the mechanics of the boss you are fighting is important and allows you to take advantage of openings. Spear is way better than sword or glaive. Yes it only hits in a specific area but it gives more range than either sword or glaive and does way more dmg when you can hit than boomerangs. Boomerangs are nice when you are dealing with enemies that are difficult to get up close too.

[VaderDFXB]

Messaggio originale di ttv/b0tkoala:

Maybe melee just isn't your style of play. Like I said in a previous post. Knowing the mechanics of the boss you are fighting is important and allows you to take advantage of openings. Spear is way better than sword or glaive. Yes it only hits in a specific area but it gives more range than either sword or glaive and does way more dmg when you can hit than boomerangs. Boomerangs are nice when you are dealing with enemies that are difficult to get up close too.

Hahahahaha, melee not my style. Funny guy. Nah, the bosses in this game are just your standard fare of annoying moves and excessive HP. Most move too quickly to be able to effectively fight them with melee without cheesing them. Terraria suffers from this as well and I hate it there too.

If you're going to have melee in the game make sure that it's as effective against bosses as ranged and magic are. As it stands melee is better against mobs but worse for bosses, pretty much like Terraria for the most part once again.

There's a reason I hate bosses in basically every game. Always WAY too much HP and they sometimes force you to play a certain way which isn't very fun at all. I want to smack thing in face, you give me tool to do so but make tool basically useless against bosses. Where's the fun in that?

[entite]

Messaggio originale di VaderDFXB:

Messaggio originale di ttv/b0tkoala:

Maybe melee just isn't your style of play. Like I said in a previous post. Knowing the mechanics of the boss you are fighting is important and allows you to take advantage of openings. Spear is way better than sword or glaive. Yes it only hits in a specific area but it gives more range than either sword or glaive and does way more dmg when you can hit than boomerangs. Boomerangs are nice when you are dealing with enemies that are difficult to get up close too.

Hahahahaha, melee not my style. Funny guy. Nah, the bosses in this game are just your standard fare of annoying moves and excessive HP. Most move too quickly to be able to effectively fight them with melee without cheesing them. Terraria suffers from this as well and I hate it there too.

If you're going to have melee in the game make sure that it's as effective against bosses as ranged and magic are. As it stands melee is better against mobs but worse for bosses, pretty much like Terraria for the most part once again.

There's a reason I hate bosses in basically every game. Always WAY too much HP and they sometimes force you to play a certain way which isn't very fun at all. I want to smack thing in face, you give me tool to do so but make tool basically useless against bosses. Where's the fun in that?

I think the problem with (most) bosses in Necesse or Terraria when it comes to playing with melee weapons is that they tend to leave zero openings for the player to attack. If you want a boss fight to be fun to fight with swords or similar weapons, it should have moments where it is stagnant and open for close-range combat.
Some bosses in Necesse that do this well are Evil's Protector, which has reasonable time frames between it's fire barrages and tends to not move often (if at all), and both the Void Wizard & Queen Spider, who both have at least one attack where they don't move a whole lot and have predictable strikes, allowing for free hits if you know the fight well.
On the other hand, there isn't many bosses in Terraria that have this attack style, with the only ones I can make a connection with being King & Queen Slime, as their whole slime shtick tends to not allow much complex movement from the two, the Lunatic Cultist, who sometimes leaves openings to attack, such as during the ritual phase, and Brain of Cthulhu, as I'd say melee is one of, if not the best class to fight it with, as the Creepers in phase 1 have very predictable movement that's easy to take advantage of, and the brain itself in phase 2 has a unique trait no other conventional boss has, which is taking knockback, which works greatly in melee's favor, as most melee weapons have high swing speed and knockback, which make phase 2 trivial.
I'd say overall that melee isn't the hardest class to take advantage of in both games, no matter the range of the weapon, but it does help a lot to have little moments in fights where moving in close-range is rewarded.

[VaderDFXB]

Messaggio originale di Entite:

I think the problem with (most) bosses in Necesse or Terraria when it comes to playing with melee weapons is that they tend to leave zero openings for the player to attack. If you want a boss fight to be fun to fight with swords or similar weapons, it should have moments where it is stagnant and open for close-range combat.

I agree with that. The pirate boss was horrible for this since he literally never stopped moving. The only chance you may get to take a swing at him is when he does a quick fly-by of you and that doesn't leave much chance to get some damage in. It was a really frustrating fight because of that.

The healing potion cooldown doesn't help either. I hated when they added that to Terraria. It exists simply to be an annoying mechanic and no other reason, just artificial difficulty. That and spongy bosses. Did I mention I hate spongy enemies? Because I hate spongy enemies.