Is A Happy Ending Possible?

[lindacor]

I played through the game and made the best decisions I could based on my interpretation of what info Fate ( who I have renamed "Donald") had given me. The result I achieved was to leave the world depopulated and smoldering. Searching for a more optimistic conclusion, I am preparing to replay the game and have decided to spare far more humans than Fate/Donald will designate, especially at the last few days of the game. This I feel may give the human race a better chance to survive. Can anyone else suggest what else I can do in my "Grim Reaper" manifestation to promote the survival and prosperity of the human race? Further, what in-game use do the snow globe and pixar-style lamp I purchased from Mortimer have?

[crayons]

yep you can get a happy ending
ive done it through experimentation
it helps if you get the lamp item and the snowglobe from the item shop

The lamp can be turned on and held over a document on your desk; it will display the four determining factors in how the world is affected by a certain choice. But you need to have made that choice already for the lamp to show what it will do. If you've already done one playthrough and are doing new game +, then you should already be able to see the details of what the decision you made on a specific document the first time around actually entailed for the world. Just hold the document below the lamp, and then hover your mouse over both options and one of them might display the stats for what it affected when you chose it the first time. There are some new documents in NG+ that you will not have seen the first time around though, so be prepared to have to take a chance on some of them based on the person's bio to try and make the right choice.

The snowglobe, just click it and it brings it up to the screen, and you can see the state of the world. If things are going poorly, there will be dead people, burning buildings, dead trees, etc.
If things are going well, you will see the shack turn to a house and then to a skyscraper, or you'll see a flagpole raising a peace flag, and there will be people with medkits, and the trees will be blooming. Each of those features represents the status of a different part of society that you're affecting; with your choices, iirc, you can affect "peace", "medical", "economy" and something else. To get the best ending, you need to maximize all of these stats in the same playthrough.

That's just from memory though. I think I got most of it right. If you think of anything else that you have a question about, you can add me and ask; I've played through this game a ton of times.

[lindacor]

Glass_Girl: Thank you for your observations. You have been most helpful and I have at least one more question about the content of the game. I promise to be brief. First, please explain what you mean by "you can add me and ask." It has not been my practice to communicate with fellow game-players through the Steam discussion board, so perhaps you could take a second and teach me the trick.

[crayons]

uh, I guess maybe that's just a me thing. I usually just tell people that if they have any more questions on something I say, to add me, because I'm notoriously bad at responding to comments on steam forums.

[lindacor]

I'm not familiar with the term "add me" as it applies to Steam forums. Could you tell me how I can "add you"? What I want to ask you about is the red minuses and blue pluses I see when I use the pixar lamp and the snow globe. Are they related? For example, if I see a number of blue pluses on a profile (when deciding whether to choose "Live" or "Die" for a person) using the lamp when I move the marker to "Live" and I select "Live" for that person, will this produce an increase in quality of life in the snow globe (more blue pluses)? I hope the question makes sense; if not, let me know & I'll try again. By the way, I think this is really a terrific game. I played it once more yesterday and got my "happy ending", replacing Fate as the new Fate. I now have the cat in my lap. I will play it again today as time permits. Thank you for your help and patience.

[crayons]

Yep, if you hover over "Live" and it shows blue pluses, (preferably more of them than red minuses) then it means it'll increase the quality of life in the snow globe. Same goes for hovering over "Die" and seeing more pluses than minuses, then you'd select die instead.

[Gremling]

I just achieved the best ending and its sorta easy to achieve. Just make sure you read all the profiles thoroughly and make choices based on what's written in them. Many of the "instructions" of Fate can get ignored later on after you got evaluated, since he barely looks at it anymore. Sometimes you have to risk getting out empty handed, no money earned at all. I killed everything that even remotely got "reckless, fraud, smuggler, kidnapper, crime" etc in their profile and kept everyone alive who seemed to make a decent living or even try to change humanity for the better. Some people are neutral - means they got so little influence that it doesn't matter if they die or not. A homemaker for example. You can take those as jokers to keep somewhat in check with Fates instructions. Also be polite to Fate - at the end you can offer to replace him.

That's how I got the best ending.

[lindacor]

Mlem, Thanks for the advice. I downloaded an "Endings Guide" today and I cannot believe the statistical complexity of the choices. I prefer your "common sense" approach when choosing who to spare/not spare.

[lindacor]

I just finished playing another round and again I have a question; I have discovered what seems like a paradoxical property in the snow globe. Can anyone explain the following? In the globe, at the "peace" icon, the sky was blood-red & cloudy, the dove had died, there was no flag and a fire was burning, all negative stuff, right? YET, it was billowing blue pluses. Further, at the "health" station, no one was dead; the people were all alive. At the "ecology" station, the tree was blossoming and blooming as if in Spring, YET both sectors were gushing red minuses. For the sake of consistency, I would think red minuses would come from failed situations while blue pluses would emit from successful ones. Am I misinterpreting the data? Finally, I hope this is obvious, but I'm having a ball playing this game.

[Gremling]

Originally posted by lindacor:

I just finished playing another round and again I have a question; I have discovered what seems like a paradoxical property in the snow globe. Can anyone explain the following? In the globe, at the "peace" icon, the sky was blood-red & cloudy, the dove had died, there was no flag and a fire was burning, all negative stuff, right? YET, it was billowing blue pluses. Further, at the "health" station, no one was dead; the people were all alive. At the "ecology" station, the tree was blossoming and blooming as if in Spring, YET both sectors were gushing red minuses. For the sake of consistency, I would think red minuses would come from failed situations while blue pluses would emit from successful ones. Am I misinterpreting the data? Finally, I hope this is obvious, but I'm having a ball playing this game.

I got that paradox once too. Keep reading the news. Sometimes you get real influencers on your desk that don't appear like one. For example I let someone live who seemingly wanted to boost the economy by building up sth similar to Amazon. Little did I know, he would take over world domination over the online market and doom several stats at once. The sky went immediately red. Idk if this might be because my economy was already weak or because those are major influences. Funny enough, I pushed all stats in the globe back to max except the building and still doomed humanity lol.
I think you need your stats somewhat in balance. I got very lucky with my first approach and still believe it's the best one - since it got me all the good stats except economy in the second playthrough (those were tricky). Just keep being a mostly obedient and boring worker and you're on a good path. Also keep those "influencers" under control - some start founding cults all of a sudden.

Tipp on top: Just make sure the amount of deaths is somewhat accurate. The other instructions are rather suggestions, so if it says "kill religious people" but you found a good priest, don't do it.
Someone here mentioned the lamp - it might also help you find out who affects which stats. But you need several playthroughs to gain an actual benefit from it. From what I see now, there are three kinds of people: those who get only buffs, negatives or mixed. It's impossible to tell exactly who does what to which stats without the lamp, but you don't necessarily need it, because it won't tell you in which amount they will affect your globe overall. I believe some deaths and lives just matter more than others.

[lindacor]

OK, here is another question related to the data produced by the snow globe and the pixar lamp. If I am reading a profile using the pixar lamp and I see that the selection "Die" has red minuses under the prosperity and the health categories, will these two minuses show up in the snow globe, further destabilizing the situation? Is there any benefit in selecting a choice with red minuses shown by the lamp? Furthur (that was the name of Ken Kesey's bus), if the "Die" choice has two blue pluses and I select "Die", are the pluses converted to the snow globe and does life in the snow globe get better? Perhaps I should write a book on Ontological Extensions of Computer Games; if fact, perhaps that's what Fate was writing. It's also very possible that after sitting around the house for a couple of weeks, I have a lot of time on my hands.

[Gremling]

Originally posted by lindacor:

OK, here is another question related to the data produced by the snow globe and the pixar lamp. If I am reading a profile using the pixar lamp and I see that the selection "Die" has red minuses under the prosperity and the health categories, will these two minuses show up in the snow globe, further destabilizing the situation? Is there any benefit in selecting a choice with red minuses shown by the lamp? Furthur (that was the name of Ken Kesey's bus), if the "Die" choice has two blue pluses and I select "Die", are the pluses converted to the snow globe and does life in the snow globe get better? Perhaps I should write a book on Ontological Extensions of Computer Games; if fact, perhaps that's what Fate was writing. It's also very possible that after sitting around the house for a couple of weeks, I have a lot of time on my hands.

As I said, I think some life's or deaths matter more than others. Or maybe it is the amount of positive and negative people you deal with that counts.
I doubt you will gain any positive influence from a minus throwing choice - except you aim for a bad ending.
And yes, the pluses and minuses get added to the globe but can be overshadowed by your other choices. In the end, it's math. If you got -15 by bad choices for the Stat "peace" for example, yet earned +10 back on the same day, it's still a -5 at the end of the equation. Idk if the amount of plus or minus depends on the influence of this human or on the amount of humans overall, but I'd love to know.

[Oak]

Ooooh hello. Such a long discussion here.

As others have said, yes, there can be a "happy" ending. There are 2 types of happy, too, either a balanced one or an "ascended" one, which... is up for interpretation.

Also about the snowglobe, it will show you pluses/minuses based on your daily decisions, and the graphic for each of the 4 sections will reflect the current overall state of the world :)

[Rakeela]

My theory about the Ouroboros loop implicit in the game:
*All* of Fate's Deaths are approximately focused on maintaining the balance while being completely unruly, making Fate's job so pointless and frustrating that he resolves to use even one obedient Death for the sole and exacting purpose of ending the system.

The system tends to fail over time because Fate's instructions are regarded as an imposition by the Deaths, so the balance weakens if Fate is good, and strengthens if Fate is evil. So Fate learns to be evil...

If the player is also completely unruly, the last Death that Fate was praying would be obedient breaks the poor soul's hopes by being Yet Another Unruly Death. Since Fate feeds the player nothing but evil, the player's unruliness sends the system spiralling towards utopia... sort of. The player's utopia still doesn't fundamentally change humanity's nature. So Fate gives up and lets the "deserving" new Death take over. Whereupon the new Fate discovers that all of the other Deaths, being completely unruly just like them, make the system impossible to direct towards any purpose, and indeed tend to misuse Fate's instructions in ways that make the system fail out if Fate works too hard to protect the system.

So Fate's job is boring and pointless at best, and consists of being actively vexed at worst. Because the player is only ONE Death, but there are a near-infinite number of Deaths working for the system...

[Oak]

Originally posted by Rakeela:

My theory about the Ouroboros loop implicit in the game:
*All* of Fate's Deaths are approximately focused on maintaining the balance while being completely unruly, making Fate's job so pointless and frustrating that he resolves to use even one obedient Death for the sole and exacting purpose of ending the system.

The system tends to fail over time because Fate's instructions are regarded as an imposition by the Deaths, so the balance weakens if Fate is good, and strengthens if Fate is evil. So Fate learns to be evil...

If the player is also completely unruly, the last Death that Fate was praying would be obedient breaks the poor soul's hopes by being Yet Another Unruly Death. Since Fate feeds the player nothing but evil, the player's unruliness sends the system spiralling towards utopia... sort of. The player's utopia still doesn't fundamentally change humanity's nature. So Fate gives up and lets the "deserving" new Death take over. Whereupon the new Fate discovers that all of the other Deaths, being completely unruly just like them, make the system impossible to direct towards any purpose, and indeed tend to misuse Fate's instructions in ways that make the system fail out if Fate works too hard to protect the system.

So Fate's job is boring and pointless at best, and consists of being actively vexed at worst. Because the player is only ONE Death, but there are a near-infinite number of Deaths working for the system...

Good analysis! The nature of deserving and the definition of what is good and bad in the is very, very loose. We tried to not crowbar things into the players' minds and used satire where we saw tropes pop up. Fate is quite self-aware of his role and the cyclical nature of things, but he himself is unable to move things. To change them really. He, too, can affect some of the world's tendencies, if only a little. Grims have more autonomy in that regard (kinda), but they, in turn, are locked into Fate's orders, so...

What does sapience, choice and responsibility even mean in that kind of situation? As you pointed out, the system does fail :D