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i have 100-150 upgraded labs and only 10 Library (count is in workers. i only use Humans for that and Cretonians do everything else)
You have library already with only 100 researchers? Does it pay off?
How many researchers/librarians does it cost to maintain the library tech including its requirements such as paper?
Feels like you're supposed to scale on tech past some thousand or more people.
Fully upgraded and researched industries can produce 10 times their original output, which is great. It could potentially make the game more enjoyable. However, the issue lies in how racial bonuses are multiplicative in this game. Due to the "stacked bonus" system mentioned earlier, the difference in production between industries aligned with racial bonuses and those that aren't becomes extremely significant.
As a result, players are pushed toward specializing in just one or two industries while purchasing everything else with money, leading to cities that heavily depend on trade. Whether this aligns with the theme of a "city-state simulator" is debatable, but to me, it feels more like running a series of industries. Recently, I played "Workers & Resources: Soviet Republic," where the citizens are also treated as workers in massive industries. While the player might intend to build a city or a nation, the end result often becomes a system that squeezes citizens and society to generate more money.
To summarize, the game’s design now makes research requirements excessively high because players cannot attempt to research everything. Growth is now tied to pursuing only the most profitable industries. This is especially evident in how primary industries (fishing, ranching) can often be more profitable than secondary industries. This happens because secondary industries require more research and also demand research for raw material production. For example, if you wanted to manage coal, iron, smelting, and blacksmithing all in a single city, the amount of research and nobles required to finally produce profitable tools or weapons would be astronomical.
The problem currently is that you cannot research past the cheap entrypoints because generation is very small or you start to employ literally hundreds (probably thousands in late game) of people to maintain the knowledge. It's just not worth it to research bonuses if you can hire more people and develop land for free.
You may have noticed the massive experience modifier on labs. As you employ more researchers, they produce more research points, making techs a lot cheaper than they were initially in manpower/tech.
As for the tech system making only specialization viable:
I do not think that is true, but I could be wrong about that in V68. The main issue with specialization is profitably exporting the production. If you have few and/or small trade partners, the worsening price will soon outpace the specialization benefits. If you want to specialize further, you have to invest in military or diplomacy to secure more trade partners.
V68 allows you to trade with non-adjacent factions. I am not sure if the costs of doing that are too low. If they are, specialization might be stronger than expected.
As you increase your research speed, and prices for produced goods drop, diversifying your production even into goods your species has no boost for becomes a good idea. Also, even if your exports prices remain miraculously stable (possibly due to exporting goods with a very low tariff/value), your import prices may not.
Only works in a world where not everyone has been seeing viral anti-me pamphlets all around their court...
I think trading with everyone might be too strong in terms of being able to export too much without affecting prices. Maybe there should be some limit on the amount of trading partners. If it's tricky to maintain good relations that limit is there implicitly, so if you want to export a lot you have to also invest a lot in diplomatic relations.
But I agree with most of your take on research, except requiring the full initial tech up to XV until you can unlock for example refining facilities is a bit much.
Trading with everyone has a cost. The colleagues treaty requires high opinion, and maintaining that will need ambassadors. I am not sure how costly it is at the moment for a reasonably sized faction.
If I don't do this, I can't keep my people happy enough to attract immigrants. If they don't immigrate, I can't put more people towards research. I know that more efficient planning is core to the game, and is ostensibly the answer to my problem, but I am so taxed by the absurd stinginess of the current system that it feels like I'm performing a prescribed minmaxxing ritual rather than designing a cool city-state.
Agreed. There were a lot of things to do without researching, like mining gems to sustain happiness and trading. I also got a bit pissed off by research price for many basic things like healthcare (50 total for basic healers and hospitals). But then you need to spend more on poopy farming to get supplies for hospital.
However, in v68, I played as humans with the same settings, and reaching even 1,000 population seemed impossible. Above all, it’s hard to find profitable trade opportunities, and industries that don’t benefit from the noble bonus struggle even to meet the city’s internal demand.
The game has certainly become more challenging, but I’m not sure whether this will feel like an enjoyable challenge for new players or simply lead them to scour the wiki and forums for help...