Resource Transport Bottlenecks

[Staines]

Pretty soon after expanding past the radius of a single warehouse I seem to run into resource transport bottlenecks. I don't understand how to use haulers, warehouses and fetch in concert to create an efficient logistics network.

I'm not sure if I'm missing something obvious, or if the tools/numbers for resources movement are a little underwhelming.

[Gamatron]

To move a resource to where you need it, build a warehouse, employ some workers there. The workers will then fetch resources from production and rooms. If you want to move resources there from another warehouse, enable fetch for the resource. The key s to use warehouses in this manner, as the workers are the ones that can carry big loads of resources.

[Staines]

Originally posted by Gamatron:

To move a resource to where you need it, build a warehouse, employ some workers there. The workers will then fetch resources from production and rooms. If you want to move resources there from another warehouse, enable fetch for the resource. The key s to use warehouses in this manner, as the workers are the ones that can carry big loads of resources.

This feels like it isn't enough though. The issue is when it gets bigger than a simple one stage fetch. I feel like it almost needs a fetch prioritisation, so that I can have intermediate fetch points.

Priority 1 - Grain collected from local fields
Priority 2 - Grain fetched to central storage
Priority 3 - Grain fetched to local storages

[Charles]

Originally posted by Gamatron:

To move a resource to where you need it, build a warehouse, employ some workers there. The workers will then fetch resources from production and rooms. If you want to move resources there from another warehouse, enable fetch for the resource. The key s to use warehouses in this manner, as the workers are the ones that can carry big loads of resources.

Originally posted by Staines:

Originally posted by Gamatron:

To move a resource to where you need it, build a warehouse, employ some workers there. The workers will then fetch resources from production and rooms. If you want to move resources there from another warehouse, enable fetch for the resource. The key s to use warehouses in this manner, as the workers are the ones that can carry big loads of resources.

This feels like it isn't enough though. The issue is when it gets bigger than a simple one stage fetch. I feel like it almost needs a fetch prioritisation, so that I can have intermediate fetch points.

Priority 1 - Grain collected from local fields
Priority 2 - Grain fetched to central storage
Priority 3 - Grain fetched to local storages

I wanted to make a post about this very thing! I agree with the idea of adding tiers to fetches. A quick solution would be to add another hauler type. One that functions the same as the ones we have now, but will haul to a warehouse/multiple instead. Another solution is to allow emptying to multiple warehouses.

Another good feature, and arguably the best, would be to add the ability to have tiered fetches that rely on resource amounts in the stockpile. For example, T1 fetch would function the same as the current fetch. T2 fetch would would allow for T1 fetch requests to extract resources from that warehouse up to the T1 limit, T3 would be overflow, it would just allow the warehouse to accumulate more resources past the fetch as if didn't have fetch enabled.

Lets break down a scenario here. You, my great despot, have two warehouses for grain. The first collects it from the farm. You have 30 boxes designated for grain in WH1. You enable fetch and a brand new, different colored slider appears on the bar, you slide it to 10. You have the original slider still set at 30. Now the warehouse will hold up to 30 boxes but 10 of them wont go to any other warehouses as they operate as a normal fetch, you need them for the attached brewery. Now you click fetch 2, a shiny new slider appears, it is even a completely different color than the first 2, now isn't that a nice visually distinct appearance! You try to slide it to 0 but it wont go lower than 11, because you have fetch 1 set to 10. Gosh I guess you will just have to use it correctly then. You slide the second slider to 20. Now the two smaller nearby warehouses with attached breweries can, with fetch 1 enabled, pull out grain until the stock is reduced to 10. But you have massive farms and your stock far exceeds a measly 20 boxes, you have 10 whole boxes that are acting like a normal unfetched stockpile! You click on empty warehouse, you then click on warehouse 2. The grain rushes forth to WH2 until only 20 boxes of grain are remaining in WH1, because fetch 2 prevents any more than that from leaving. WH2 is set up just like WH1 but it is smaller. Once its fetch 1 and fetch 2 requirements are met it too will forcibly expel its excess grain all the way to WH3, which is the same as 1 and 2. WH3, once fetch 1 and 2 are met, will continue the great cycle. Now the grain, and the booze, can flow efficiently to the far flung corners of the map, and now your population wont even need to go across the whole map because one greedy warehouse steals all the grain!

I have a few ideas about how the UI could work with it, and how to solve some niche problems like WH1 being in the radius of WH2, but This post has been long enough! I am more than happy to go into greater detail if you would like!

[c0ri0lis]

Originally posted by Staines:

Originally posted by Gamatron:

To move a resource to where you need it, build a warehouse, employ some workers there. The workers will then fetch resources from production and rooms. If you want to move resources there from another warehouse, enable fetch for the resource. The key s to use warehouses in this manner, as the workers are the ones that can carry big loads of resources.

This feels like it isn't enough though. The issue is when it gets bigger than a simple one stage fetch. I feel like it almost needs a fetch prioritisation, so that I can have intermediate fetch points.

Priority 1 - Grain collected from local fields
Priority 2 - Grain fetched to central storage
Priority 3 - Grain fetched to local storages

Currently my system for Food does the following:

• Warehouse A is built among the Farms, as it's closest to where the food is produced it's the closest place to take it.
  
  
• Warehouse A is also set to "Empty" into Warehouse B which is a larger warehouse in a more central location.
  
  
• From Warehouse B the food is then moved to other Warehouses where it is needed (e.g. near Eateries/Canteens) as those Warehouses are set to "Fetch" food.

This seems to give me a convenient way to harvest and distribute Food. My only gripe would be that we currently cannot set a Warehouse to empty into multiple targets (ideally in a balanced fashion) to let me to distribute Food from Farms into two central hubs. The workaround though is simply to have some of the Farm Warehouses empty to one central Warehouse and other Farm Warehouses to another.

Does this help?

[Charles]

Originally posted by Puddi_UK:

Originally posted by Staines:

This feels like it isn't enough though. The issue is when it gets bigger than a simple one stage fetch. I feel like it almost needs a fetch prioritisation, so that I can have intermediate fetch points.

Priority 1 - Grain collected from local fields
Priority 2 - Grain fetched to central storage
Priority 3 - Grain fetched to local storages

Currently my system for Food does the following:

• Warehouse A is built among the Farms, as it's closest to where the food is produced it's the closest place to take it.
  
  
• Warehouse A is also set to "Empty" into Warehouse B which is a larger warehouse in a more central location.
  
  
• From Warehouse B the food is then moved to other Warehouses where it is needed (e.g. near Eateries/Canteens) as those Warehouses are set to "Fetch" food.

This seems to give me a convenient way to harvest and distribute Food. My only gripe would be that we currently cannot set a Warehouse to empty into multiple targets (ideally in a balanced fashion) to let me to distribute Food from Farms into two central hubs. The workaround though is simply to have some of the Farm Warehouses empty to one central Warehouse and other Farm Warehouses to another.

Does this help?

Thank you, I wish it would work for my current issue, but I think it is good advice. I did something similar in the beginning, but as I expand out and have multiple sectors it becomes increasingly tedious to adjust. Currently I am just manipulating the amount of crates so that the only place it can go is to the proper distribution hub. For instance I will allow one to have 500 stone, and the other to have 500 stone when I only have around 1k stone. The problem with this solution is that it gets increasingly micromanagement heavy, and I have more than just 2 local distribution warehouses. It also all but precludes having a massive overflow warehouse. When you also add in constantly removing stock for trading purposes, it starts to compound the issue. But, to the credit of the dev, the AI is generally smart enough to get crap where it needs to go. I could probably ignore it and be fine, and I have been doing that, but I really like the efficiency gains from a well thought out distribution system. This is my first play through in SOS, In the future I should be able to build around the current limitations. I would love to see more options for fetching tho! The possibilities of elaborate supply chains squeezing every last drop of efficiency out of my workers is quite enticing!

[Staines]

Originally posted by Puddi_UK:

Originally posted by Staines:

This feels like it isn't enough though. The issue is when it gets bigger than a simple one stage fetch. I feel like it almost needs a fetch prioritisation, so that I can have intermediate fetch points.

Priority 1 - Grain collected from local fields
Priority 2 - Grain fetched to central storage
Priority 3 - Grain fetched to local storages

Currently my system for Food does the following:

• Warehouse A is built among the Farms, as it's closest to where the food is produced it's the closest place to take it.
  
  
• Warehouse A is also set to "Empty" into Warehouse B which is a larger warehouse in a more central location.
  
  
• From Warehouse B the food is then moved to other Warehouses where it is needed (e.g. near Eateries/Canteens) as those Warehouses are set to "Fetch" food.

This seems to give me a convenient way to harvest and distribute Food. My only gripe would be that we currently cannot set a Warehouse to empty into multiple targets (ideally in a balanced fashion) to let me to distribute Food from Farms into two central hubs. The workaround though is simply to have some of the Farm Warehouses empty to one central Warehouse and other Farm Warehouses to another.

Does this help?

This is a good solution for sure, it does what I'm looking for.

[BlaidKiller]

I think it could have a system of exchanges between warehouses, being able to select the items that you want to empty, the items that you want to fill and the items that you want to leave balanced (as a percentage of the quantity established in the warehouse). This way, it would be possible to create distribution centers.

One dynamic I discovered was the "fetch" function with the "empty to". Assuming two warehouses WH1, which contains only stone, and WH2, which contains only wood. When I put the WH1 to empty to the WH2 it will send all the stones in it. If I put the WH1 to store wood and put it as a "fetch", when it empties the stones to the WH2, it comes back with wood to fill the WH1. So it ends up being an exchange system. I just have to think about how you can operationalize this.

Maybe creating specific warehouses, adjusting quantities... I don't know if that's possible. If I find something cool I'll post it here.

[c0ri0lis]

Originally posted by BlaidKiller:

I think it could have a system of exchanges between warehouses, being able to select the items that you want to empty, the items that you want to fill and the items that you want to leave balanced (as a percentage of the quantity established in the warehouse). This way, it would be possible to create distribution centers.

One dynamic I discovered was the "fetch" function with the "empty to". Assuming two warehouses WH1, which contains only stone, and WH2, which contains only wood. When I put the WH1 to empty to the WH2 it will send all the stones in it. If I put the WH1 to store wood and put it as a "fetch", when it empties the stones to the WH2, it comes back with wood to fill the WH1. So it ends up being an exchange system. I just have to think about how you can operationalize this.

Maybe creating specific warehouses, adjusting quantities... I don't know if that's possible. If I find something cool I'll post it here.

I absolutely agree, and I'm glad I'm not the only one who wants a few more logistics functions. I'd do it a bit differently to you. I'd have a a Balance option beside Fetch which instructs the Warehouses with the same good marked Balance to try and even it out between them. Both Balance and Fetch could work concurrently to allow balance across each set independently but prioritizing Fetch over Balance.

I'm in a scenario right now where that would help immensely, distributing imported foods to all Warehouses so that food preferences are met across my settlement.

[c0ri0lis]

While on the topic of logistics I have a quick question. I've played for ages and always used Warehouses near my industry to supply the resources they need, but it suddenly hit me - why don't I use Haulers? Should I have been using Haulers from the start to supply buildings and just using Warehouses as storage hubs?

My thinking is that Warehouses are good for two things: Bulk storage and varied storage (e.g. when you need to store a variety of foodstuffs for an Eatery). But they also suffer from a number of downsides: they waste a lot of physical space if they have walls - A 5 by 5 Warehouse is 24 tiles of wall for 25 tiles of floor (which cannot all be used) and this also means there are now 49 tiles that can suffer Degradation (and thus cost manpower to fix).

Am I missing some huge drawback of Haulers? Have I been doing something foolish from the start by using Warehouses everywhere and Haulers only to get resources need construction sites?

[Charles]

Originally posted by Puddi_UK:

While on the topic of logistics I have a quick question. I've played for ages and always used Warehouses near my industry to supply the resources they need, but it suddenly hit me - why don't I use Haulers? Should I have been using Haulers from the start to supply buildings and just using Warehouses as storage hubs?

My thinking is that Warehouses are good for two things: Bulk storage and varied storage (e.g. when you need to store a variety of foodstuffs for an Eatery). But they also suffer from a number of downsides: they waste a lot of physical space if they have walls - A 5 by 5 Warehouse is 24 tiles of wall for 25 tiles of floor (which cannot all be used) and this also means there are now 49 tiles that can suffer Degradation (and thus cost manpower to fix).

Am I missing some huge drawback of Haulers? Have I been doing something foolish from the start by using Warehouses everywhere and Haulers only to get resources need construction sites?

I would also like to know this, can haulers carry more than a warehouse worker? The problem I see with haulers is that they cant store all that much in their spot. You could solve it with more haulers tho. But warehouses do have the benefit of bulk storage. So that means that you have a bit of a buffer if the supply chain goes funny or if there is a long distance to travel. Haulers are legendary for construction sites tho! I would love to see tiered fetches tho. I think that would be an amazing solution. Especially paired with multiple targets for empty.

[i do games]

I feel like first post was best post, but I'll elaborate;

You (the royal You) might not truly appreciate the sheer scale this game evolves into.

There isn't one warehouse, or two. You aren't harvesting 1,000 Wood from a single Woodcutter and carefully micro-managing individual crate levels in each warehouse. You are literally selling millions of dollars worth of stuff and buying (or collecting for free) millions of dollars worth of other stuff to fill a countless number of warehouses in an effort to try and placate 10,000+ wild and murderous pixel men.

That being said, I found that the Hauler building fixes any and all delivery issues I might have.

[i do games]

Originally posted by Charles:

I would also like to know this, can haulers carry more than a warehouse worker? The problem I see with haulers is that they cant store all that much in their spot. You could solve it with more haulers tho.

Yeah they can carry just as much and the storage limitation isn't an issue for the reason you mentioned; if you notice the hauler buildings empty/running low often, just build more Haulers. I only use warehouses so my Haulers don't have to go so far to collect whatever that specific area needs.

[Charles]

That's awesome, thanks. I was not quite sure about that one. Also it may not be an issue for a smaller building. But I tend to have 2-4 very large buildings clustered together and sharing walls. Then I will use a tiny warehouse connected to all of them to supply the resources. For a brewery you need 3 different resources in reasonably sizable quantities. The haulers can get the job done no problem, but definitely not in as clean or compact of a manner. That being said the haulers are awesome at moving stuff, but connected warehouses have a place too. I really don't have any complaints about how haulers function. I think they serve their role very well.

[Charles]

If anyone is curious a hauler needs 4 squares to store 96 items, and a warehouse box of 4 squares will store 510 items. The haulers do have the added benefit of being able to be placed just about anywhere however. But with warehouses the raw space advantage grows with box size. I was getting curious about just how good haulers could be and decided to check!

[BlaidKiller]

I just took the test too. While warehouses have the cost of upkeep, it's nothing compared to what they can do. The houlers just take the resource. The warehouse can take it and deliver it to another warehouse as well. For the factories I define a warehouse box for each resource needed and set it to "fetch", and I set a box to store the produced product, and I set it to empty it to the city's warehouse, or the central one.

NOTE: The warehouse does not take resource from the houlers.