Are mines worth it?

[Dampfnudel]

Are mines worth it?

They seem to produce a tiny amount of goods.

Deposit density seems to range from 4% to 19% at best.

even a small mine focused on all 15%+ tiles seems to only generate tiny fractions.

It feels much better to just buy the ressources. After all all these miners could produce goods for export instead.

[martinuzz]

4 to 19% is pretty bad. Note that, when starting a new game, you can re-roll the map generation until you are satisfied with the deposits on it.

[MadCre8tor]

You can definitely get screwed by seed generation currently.
My first colony was gimped from the start tbh.

[Whiskiz]

deposits *can* get up to 100% (i have some 100% Sithilon in my current game)

also at the start you can just target the few that are high deposits, only expanding the mine beyond when you have the extra manpower

also your Dondorians have work skill in mining

also once you get metal you can boost mine efficiency

[Cheet4h]

Originally posted by Whiskiz:

also at the start you can just target the few that are high deposits, only expanding the mine beyond when you have the extra manpower

Note that you can just include the lower yielding tiles, but then also lower the desired workforce at the mine. The tiles with the highest yields will be exploited first, as described in the tooltip. The average yield is lowered when you assign more workers, but not when you include fields with lower yield. Or if it is, it's likely a bug and should be reported.

I think this wasn't always the case. I remember that at some point it was useful to only build a mine on the highest-yielding tiles and only build a mine as large as the amount of workers you want to employ there, but this was changed in one of the last few updates.

[Whiskiz]

ah so the workers target max yield deposits first? nice one

only other problem there is the bigger the mine the more metal it'll cost for the auxiliaries to boost efficiency and in general

[MadCre8tor]

Originally posted by Whiskiz:

ah so the workers target max yield deposits first? nice one

only other problem there is the bigger the mine the more metal it'll cost for the auxiliaries to boost efficiency and in general

^this. In the beginning, when metal can be very scarce (boost clay output, wood output, coal..., maybe want to build a canteen?) it's nice to cut the additional fix costs of additional auxiliaries, then build additional ones as you expand the mine over time.

Only downside of this can be that rebuilding the mine will reset all worker experience.

[Scribonius]

I would not bother honestly, I feel like it's easier to buy the stuff until you can tax for it and get massive amounts without the downsides of large workforce drains on jobs that they hate. Coal mines seem to be ok though, and gem/Sithilon mines are definitely worth it if you can get the tech for them.

[Dampfnudel]

Originally posted by Scribonius:

I would not bother honestly, I feel like it's easier to buy the stuff until you can tax for it and get massive amounts without the downsides of large workforce drains on jobs that they hate. Coal mines seem to be ok though, and gem/Sithilon mines are definitely worth it if you can get the tech for them.

Thats what I thought so far, Unless you have mass unemployment I will just export refined goods and eggs and buy the metal myself.

This begs the question:

Buy tools, metals, or iron&coal?

[Whiskiz]

i get iron, metals, and coal myself and buy tools and battlegear since you need research for them and too much metals for important base stuff to be able to buy

[Scribonius]

Originally posted by Dampfnudel:

Thats what I thought so far, Unless you have mass unemployment I will just export refined goods and eggs and buy the metal myself.

This begs the question:

Buy tools, metals, or iron&coal?

Buy iron, and buy coal if you need it (and don't mine or tax for it). Wait on tools until much later, they do not seem to be of that high importance until you have spare resources for them (and it can hurt you if you do not have a steady supply of them).

[Whiskiz]

you can buy tools and use them to provide 100% boost to production and crafting you're doing for money making, then use that to further finance them for everything else

i'm currently buying tools for coal mine, ore mine and smelting and selling a ton of extra metal, then soon carpenter and pottery for extra furniture and pots

while also spending research on trade/sell/bartering bonuses (currently 4 levels for 20%)

while also spending administration on boosting production by +57% total

as well as the Master of Mines noble giving a bonus

only buy iron and/or coal if your map doesn't have good or any close deposits, or for some reason you really, really need the extra manpower

[Scribonius]

Originally posted by Whiskiz:

you can buy tools and use them to provide 100% boost to production and crafting you're doing for money making, then use that to further finance them for everything else

The only issue with tools is if you don't have a steady supply then it can cause a breakdown in your supply chain, and possibly a death spiral if it is bad enough. I never used them much so I can't be too sure about this but from what I have gathered it sounds like it.

[madpraxis]

That...is easy to combat though. Just don't over extend your tool use. As long as you don't use more, you are good. That's why I would never buy tools. If I set up my own supply chain to create them, then I *KNOW* how many I'm making, then I'm not worrying if a trader will not show up and everything collapses. Even with a crap ore mine and coal mine, you can still make metal, and if you can make metal, you can make tools.

[Whiskiz]

Originally posted by Scribonius:

Originally posted by Whiskiz:

you can buy tools and use them to provide 100% boost to production and crafting you're doing for money making, then use that to further finance them for everything else

The only issue with tools is if you don't have a steady supply then it can cause a breakdown in your supply chain, and possibly a death spiral if it is bad enough. I never used them much so I can't be too sure about this but from what I have gathered it sounds like it.

only if you rely on them, not use them to over-produce for trade

you can get a death spiral when anything runs out - normal food production, clothing, drinks, soldiers

what's different

[Scribonius]

Originally posted by Whiskiz:

what's different

The thing with tools is if you make them, then if you use them on the prerequisite resources you can eventually cause a shortage that leads you to produce even less tools, making a self perpetuating problem.
It shouldn't be an issue if you pay any attention to it, but still needs to be watched.

Originally posted by Whiskiz:

you can get a death spiral when anything runs out - normal food production, clothing, drinks, soldiers

Food absolutely, the others not really so much. Clothes kind of, but unless you have constant riots (which may be an issue in v0.59, not sure if it has changed) soldiers are not too much of an issue. Not sure why drinks would contribute to a death spiral unless it is the last thing that pushes the people over the happiness threshold.