Discussion on Mask program

[Pickle Bath]

For the Re: Sealife mission, if you leaked aQui algorithm, then go back in to dig deeper, I ran Mask and Dagger and it was the most boring mission I've done yet.

Turn on Mask.
Go to a node. Sniff the Ice Wall. Then literally 15 turns of
> remove dagger
> dagger
> end
> remove dagger
> dagger
> end

As it slowly chipped down the Ice Wall and I was untraceable thanks to Mask.

Is there something I'm missing? Is this meant to be some super safe player style (with the real life penalty of being MIND NUMBING)?

[Sam]

The mission is meant to be quite difficult and the network is very vulnerable to something like Mask. Mask is definitely super safe, but also very, very slow.

Personally, I never use Mask because it is very situational. The most powerful programs occupy the stealth slot and some networks have natural counters against moving slow (which Mask certainly makes you do). Such as Sundrop ICE, timed missions or System Operators . Mask doesn't do anything for me in missions that have these elements. In Mask's defense, I think it might be a solid stealth choice in those situations if you allow it to be broken from time to time but somehow I never want to allow that to happen :).

I usually try to build around a playstyle and I think Mask is just a tad too situational and slow for me.

[Pickle Bath]

Right after that mission I had the AdBot cleaning one with the Payment at the end, and Mask + Sniffer + Dagger cleaned it up, albeit slowly.

Maybe I just haven't gotten far enough (only done the SysOp training mission, haven't run into SunDrop or timed), but I could see someone refunding in the 2 hour window after getting Mask, it's that much of a show stopper for tedium.

Of course there's the argument of "just don't use it", but I'm in the player camp that will optimize the fun out of a game, or at least be tempted to (or be frustrating if I'm forced to play suboptimally to make my own fun).

[LuGus Studios]

I personally am a massive fan of Mask, It's a key part of my favourite deck setup... but indeed as both of you state: it makes things a bit slower and it's not the perfect stealth solution to every challenge. In my first run (internal test), I felt Mask came at the right time to change up the Stealth game a bit. I did think this would be a program worth discussing, as is illustrated here. It's changes up the play style and I suspect its not for everyone.

Important to note: depending on your game choices, Mask might become available at a different time for you than other players.

[Sam]

I can see that. I'm curious to see if you change your mind about Mask as the game goes along, though.

[Pickle Bath]

Maybe I got it too early, as mentioned in my first spoiler in the OP the mission involved was the first time I could use it.

Probably just appeals to Shaper players or something. Or maybe it was just the 2 scorpions and 2 ice walls I had to tediously chip through that made Mask a memorably bad first experience.

I'll definitely edit later about Mask if I run into situations where it's not as good, or the flipside if I find more missions that are trivial & boring as a result of it.

[Sam]

For sure man! Keep us in the loop. Mask has always been a hot topic.

[LuGus Studios]

Originally posted by Steven Glansberg:

Maybe I got it too early, as mentioned in my first spoiler in the OP the mission involved was the first time I could use it.

Probably just appeals to Shaper players or something. Or maybe it was just the 2 scorpions and 2 ice walls I had to tediously chip through that made Mask a memorably bad first experience.

I would actually love to hear how you feel we could further balance Mask :) Might be good to try a few networks that make Mask less effective first ofcourse.

[Kasper]

From experience, on large networks, Mask+Hive can grow into a *very* powerful combo.

[Latro]

I never did get Hive in my playthrough, but I definitely felt like on any levels where there was no source of trace other than my programs and the passive trace and no timer, Mask+Sniffer+Dagger straight up solved the game, in a way that didn't feel fun to actually execute.

[Pickle Bath]

Originally posted by LuGus Studios:

I would actually love to hear how you feel we could further balance Mask :) Might be good to try a few networks that make Mask less effective first ofcourse.

Well, you know what they say, listen to a user's complaints but not their solutions :P

But fundamentally Mask removes a key, fun part of the game (the pressure of Trace) and further promotes a dull playstyle by discouraging movement and rewarding creeping around the map at a snail's pace. The core design of it is the problem, and although it can be limited (by time, slices, whatever) the issues of completely ignoring Traces is still there. Saying the Sundrop/timed/SysOp missions are supposed to be bad for Mask...but in that case just don't use Mask...so it doesn't balance or resolve the big pile of missions where Mask IS good.

I think some of the problem is comparing to Cloak, when Cloak itself doesn't present a ton of interesting decisions, it's more a "turn on, keep as many slices allocated as possible while still achieving goals, and hope the RNG change to skip a Trace is in your favor".

Mask doesn't really have downsides, and with slow and careful (not even THAT careful...it's pretty easy to do) play, you can breeze through missions. I just wrapped up Kraken boss fight and Astrid's house digging for dirt last night and Mask meant both were done with 0 trace. The first one even had a SysOp. I'll still report back as I play more over the coming weeks since I still have at least 15+ hours left in my runthrough I think.

So anyway, Mask needs to be changed to bring the tension of Trace back. Maybe Mask:
- Has a realtime component and only lasts for 4 minutes. Injecting pseudo-realtime elements could be cool, since the "not intended for play" realtime mode is quite fun and less tedious than typing "end" every 2 command.
- Used progressively more slices over time/turns/when certain things trigger
- Can't be activated for the first bit of the mission
- Utilizes another resource, like draining credits

But all seem kind of bleh, so I'm hoping the devs can brainstorm a better idea, considering how cool TheNoose and poison mechanics are. Hopefully Mask isn't one devs pet project or darling that they don't want to change :)

To be completely honest and blunt, after playing a bunch yesterday with Mask (~6 slow missions in a row without a problem), if my first exposure to the game was watching a video of someone using Mask I wouldn't have bought it, and it's made me hesitant to recommend to friends with (what feels like) such a glaring balance/design problem.

[Pickle Bath]

Originally posted by fourfouriers:

I never did get Hive in my playthrough, but I definitely felt like on any levels where there was no source of trace other than my programs and the passive trace and no timer, Mask+Sniffer+Dagger straight up solved the game, in a way that didn't feel fun to actually execute.

If you've passed the game, what percent of missions do you think you could cheese/sleep through with Mask?

[Latro]

Originally posted by Steven Glansberg:

Originally posted by fourfouriers:

I never did get Hive in my playthrough, but I definitely felt like on any levels where there was no source of trace other than my programs and the passive trace and no timer, Mask+Sniffer+Dagger straight up solved the game, in a way that didn't feel fun to actually execute.

If you've passed the game, what percent of missions do you think you could cheese/sleep through with Mask?

I have in fact finished the game. Assuming you magically had Mask from the beginning (which you don't of course), more than half. That's just because most missions are ICE-only. Sundrop alone doesn't actually make Mask irrelevant, it just gives some pressure to murder the Sundrops at the start, and actually because of being able to turn Mask on later, you can go especially aggro on them (e.g. use noisy breakers).

[Pickle Bath]

Originally posted by fourfouriers:

Assuming you magically have Mask from the beginning (which you don't of course), more than half. LOTS of missions are ICE-only. Sundrop alone doesn't actually make Mask irrelevant, it just gives some pressure to murder the Sundrops at the start, and actually because of being able to turn Mask on later, you can go especially aggro on them (e.g. use noisy breakers).

Thanks for the info.

I had Mask since the Sealife mission, after you optionally leak aQui's algorithm, and go back into the server to dig deeper. It had 2 scorpions and 2 ice walls. So before I even did the Kraken boss mission.. Not sure if that is early to unlock (SEEMED early), or if it was from White/Gray/Black hat reputation, but yeah.

[Latro]

Originally posted by Steven Glansberg:

Originally posted by fourfouriers:

Assuming you magically have Mask from the beginning (which you don't of course), more than half. LOTS of missions are ICE-only. Sundrop alone doesn't actually make Mask irrelevant, it just gives some pressure to murder the Sundrops at the start, and actually because of being able to turn Mask on later, you can go especially aggro on them (e.g. use noisy breakers).

Thanks for the info.

I had Mask since the Sealife mission, after you optionally leak aQui's algorithm, and go back into the server to dig deeper. It had 2 scorpions and 2 ice walls. So before I even did the Kraken boss mission.. Not sure if that is early to unlock (SEEMED early), or if it was from White/Gray/Black hat reputation, but yeah.

I think I had Mask in that mission also, but I don't recall what the rep requirement to unlock it was.

[LuGus Studios]

We might make a small balance tweak to Mask in a near future update. Thank you for the feedback!