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After today's interview I stand corrected. The true enemy of humanity is Ryukishi himself ♥♥♥♥ that man
I'd always planned to read Ciconia at some point, and I have to admit it was due to Higurashi Gou that motivated me to move Ciconia up in my reading queue and now I need Phase 2 badly!
Major Higurashi Gou spoiler:
Featherine appearing before Satoko and referring to her as Vier from this game and as anomalous spinal cord specimen LD3105.
It will be difficult to analyze and share theories without referring back to Higurashi and Umineko so giving a spoiler warning in advance for anyone who hasn't read or watched those titles before. Will share some thoughts and theories I came up with before reading the forums on here then add some thoughts.
For the "easy" one, I have guesses about the 4 moles from the 3 kings that are in each of the major 4 factions.
AOU: Chloe. Reasoning is due to how she has expressed a desire to see the world destroyed and its very possible she is a CPP given how she zapped Lilja on the Christmas Battle. The Data fragment with "Chloevil" also somewhat suggests this.
After reading all the data fragments my 2nd guess is also Gunhild which also seems like a popular suspect. She seems resentful towards the world as seen from her thoughts and the conversation with the Monster Cafe owner did make me wonder about her true thoughts with her comrades. At the end of one of her Data Fragments, she did express that she loved Miyao so that could lead into a love triangle between Miyao - Jayden - and Gunhild that gets explored in Phase 2.
COU: Main guess now is Suthaja. Due to how she was the one who told Miyao about the officers of her faction investigating the battle patterns of the Gauntlet Knights and how it's likely happening in other factions. Combined with how she said she only supported the Public Bath Order on the surface. I feel that the chat message she accidentally sent to Miyao saying "Miyao why!?" that was meant for Lingji is also important.
ABN: This one I'm still not very certain. I think it might be one of the members of Thalathat Suyuf (The Nun squad). Only reason is how they are quick to turn against the Order of the Public Bath's philosophy of "Don't Die, Don't Kill" in the name of killing for their religion. That's a stretch though since it also feels like not a lot was revealed about that squad or the other squad in the ABN in this Phase.
ACR: And this one is purely instinctual. It could be Rethabile. It is possible since none of the other characters have actually seen her brother that her brother may even have been dead before the drone attack, or instead is perhaps actually a CPP personality of Rethabile that was thought to be "killed".
Naturally not fully certain in any of these guesses. They're my thoughts as of finishing Phase 1.
For the True Mastermind of this series, I'm completely clueless on that. It feels like a lot was shown, there clearly are a lot of different factions at work and it is exciting to think about them, and it seems like each of them have their own hidden agenda. I suspect the Three Kings are a red herring and not the true masterminds behind everything considering how they appeared so early in what is only the "Question Arcs" of this series. It was even stated that several things that happened weren't part of their plans and caused by someone else. Such as the pillars from 4D printing satellites in space that disrupted the Ocean 8MS. They may want to destroy civilization, but that's not the same as destroying humanity. They do seem to want what's best for humanity in their own twisted way and the idea that Miyao proposed of one mastermind behind a conspiracy seems to be an idea that is a trap with this setup this time.
This time there may even be more than one mastermind. Kinda as if Bernkastel and Lambadelta were both game masters in this game.
There are a few things I am almost certain on though.
Near the end and even a bit throughout the game, I believe that Miyao's desire to abandon their bodies and enter a permanent VR world with his friends is what ultimately leads to the Hell Factory seen in the future vision. I can easily see it where Miyao and the other Main Gauntlet Knights lose faith in humanity completely from their experience of being ordered to fight each other and it is what leads to the Hell Factory in the future. It might be that the Factory inserts people's brains into the new blue bodies as seen with Blue Miyao and the blue gauntlet knights seen in the underground Research Facility.
At first I thought Mario's earthquake machine might be the start of the Hell Factory, or perhaps the Underground Facility Vier is in already has that factory, and they've used it on everyone there which is lets the people underground be immortal, but I'm not certain on that. Especially if I stick to the theory that it's Miyao's idea that causes it near the end with almost all the other Gauntlet Knights also agreeing to it.
Other thing I believe is that the Red Sea seen after the credits is the world covered with hell factories. Conventional human life isn't possible there anymore which requires humans to undergo what happens.
This leads to one of 3 theories on who the biggest unknown mastermind might be.
The 1st is Jayden & Meow ultimately end up becoming the main antagonists of Ciconia and create the Hell Factory. A major reason for it being that as their relationship develops, it is difficult to love each other with their bodies, and so entering the VR world or the blue bodies is what allows them to love each other eternally without flesh getting in the way. And it could be interesting if Miyao himself doesn't actually want this and it turns out Meow is related to blue-Miyao and has been working to ensure these events happen so she can be with Jayden forever. In addition to also losing faith in Humanity as a whole from being unable maintain the "Walls of Peace".
In the 2nd Hell Factory scene, the voice of who's talking does sound like they could be Featherine due to how they say "Child of Man". If Featherine is actually directly involved in this larger scope chessboard of the whole world this time, it could get very crazy. In Umineko she did stay as an observer while Bernkastel & Lambadelta were the main players. Since the scope of this setting is far larger, its possible we're dealing with someone like Featherine who is on a whole new level above Bern & Lamba. Again I think of Featherine because of how her connection to Ciconia was established in Higurashi Gou
Only other theory is that Miyao's mother is somehow a major player. Its easy to think that Vier could actually be Miyao's mother due to her connection with Takano from Higurashi and Toujirou being similar to Tomitake. But it is also possible that theory is a trap set for Higurashi readers & watchers to make us think that when Miyao's mother could be someone else.
Those are my thoughts for now. I'm sure I forgot a few thoughts. This is pretty exciting for me since when I Read & Watched Higurashi and Umineko before the series were already finished. This time the next entries in the series aren't available yet so it is the perfect time for theories while there are still not any answer arcs. Going to be curious if any of our theories end up being true with later entries, but it is a theme from Umineko and this game that we can't stop thinking. The moment we stop thinking is when we become Witch's Furniture. Or in the case of this game Geory Equipment instead.
Still reading Ciconia after watching the available gameplays on YT, but some things i don´t want to overlook:
The symbolism of Lingji and Koshka, Blue Miyao profetized that Miyao will kill Lingji and Koshka, Apparently Lingji´s name means "bell princess" and Koshka "cat", i´m pretty sure the image of a cat being lured to ring a chime/bell may play a role in the symbolism of a hypothetical loop or a end scenario, also the recurring cat theme in many Gauntlet Knights (Meow´s name, Gannet´s ears, Lilja´s mannerisms, Koshka´s name)
Momotake, of all the characters is by far the most old fashioned, and near the beggining when Miyao asked if all the COU japanese people were like that, Lingji said that Momotake wasn´t always like it, so i can asume some kind of CPP or conditioning after joining the army.
In chapter 5, Vier mentioned that in many instances, it doesn´t matter if a wisdom comes from an ancient civilization (which could relate to the concealed info about a pre-WW3 world) or aliens (or seem like it) and that a very sophisticated wisdom can look as the occult (pretty similar to the way the illusion of the witch is born in Umineko), also remember the value Vier gave to be the "translator" of even greater geniuses because if a wisdom is not understood, its value is near to zero, that´s why i think Seshat, and probably many more symbolism to come, may be a proxy of a scientist of sorts.
Also Vier said that if you no longer have any nexus to "the surface" you may as well be considered death, that could refer to the posibility of all being a simulation or the existence of one and death simply means be transported to other one or being in a "lobby" of sorts awaiting to start another one.
LATO is doomed, or in a war scenario it´s the first to be betrayed or to give the least resistance (they trusted their air force entirely on drones), the healthy military balance heavily relies in all the countries not developing in the shadows new technology or conspirating that could surpass "technology reserved only to LATO".
In the future i want to analyze in depth the visual details in many of the designs either of characters or gauntlets, because we may infer a thing or two about the factions.
PS: Don´t forget that we only saw the gauntlet knights each faction decided to send to the militar standard festival, i remember near the beggining the silhouette of anonymous gauntlet knights were shown. It was said that in case of dissobedience, many GK would be replaced and sent to re-education programs, so in case this thing loops, the GK cast would change, and maybe drastically.
PS2: Holy sh*t apparently there´s quite symbolism between the cat and the bell, the duty of the collar bell is so THE CAT CAN´T HUNT by ALERTING THE PREYS, also there´s the fable of the cat and the bell.
From what we've seen so far in Gou/Sotsu, I think we've got the keys to form a combined theory explaining the greater WTC universe. Seems that Ciconia is actually the origin with the brain spinal cord interfaces being the highest level of meta in the series. Either that or the sea of fragments. Mind's just totally blown trying to piece it all together, but that's par for the course with this series.
Anyway piecing together the meta world is interesting, but I'm still impatiently waiting for phase 2 so we can finally see more of what's happening on the board for Ciconia. At this point I probably just need to reread phase 1 with how much time I've had to forget it tho lol
As far as speculations go, considering the dinamic of the young ones being pieces of stronger/older actors, i can see the same pattern of Erika/Bernkastel design similarities, in the case of Miyao (Toujirou/Vier Maybe) i can see it in some of his clothes, mainly the scarf (Toujirou) and maybe the vest (Vier). Im pretty suspicious of some elements in the designs, i think these hints are a sort of prestige symbol of having someone over your command:
King of Ridicule: a lonely blue cord in his vest, currently Jayden is the only one to have it or maybe one character that heavily displays that color like Noor/Stan
King of Sorrow: A green cord, a red sash and a green jewell. For the sash there´s Lingji (after all, she was the one saying Miyao that "he wasn´t the enemy, he just needed to stop putting in her way" and the one featuring the weird gauntlet at the end), Rukhi or Sujatha, with Rukhi being fed up with the world by the end. As far of the green Jewell there´s Mariana as a diamond in the rough which is hindered by the many personalities aflicting her, then there´s Koshka and Gunhild as both exhbit dread for this world.
King of Fury: A cape and a shoulder scarf, in the first case there´s Abdou and Ishak, one detail is that Ishak´s scarf is over his clothes and in equilibrium, while Abdou´s is unbalanced and inside his clothes, other case could be Naomi´s belt/sash. For the other case there´s Aysha which also used cont, Naomi and Lilngji.
Seshat: The jacket she holds (Abdou´s jacket is OVER the king´s scarf) and her headress, which amounts only to Mariana and Rethabile, which interestingly has a similar bead in a similar place of her forehead.
I also find fascinating how some characters through pose or clothing actively hide their hands or parts of their bodies (andry´s cape, ishak´s, hand, etc.)
After some videos told about the connection with the book of revelations i find noteworthy some symbols, one key sign was the lamb with 7 horns and 7 eyes, which i wonder how it could have manifested, i can only think of Gannet her hair and her metallic pins.
From reading Umineko ultimately what the most important thing seemed to be figuring out the theme of the game. At first Umineko seemed to be about the mystery and trying to deny the illusion of the witch by figuring out the tricks that the human culprit used to make it look like the work of a witch. But then later the true theme of the story was shown through the big quote "Without Love, it cannot be seen."
It wanted the readers to not just think about the "How" and "Who" behind the mystery, but also the "Why". And it felt like an easy trap to fall into since for awhile I did just think about trying to solve the "How" and "Who" without seeing the characters themselves with love.
Which comes back to Ciconia now, and I wonder if that theme is still present throughout this game as well. I suspect it is, because the theme of friendship was also seen in Higurashi, and learning to believe in your friends. What does the game master want us to focus on in Ciconia? That's something I'm still trying to analyze.
I forget if it was said before, but I think the relationship between Meow and Jayden is an important element to explore since it might be connected with the motive of how the world gets transformed into the Red Sea. And perhaps understanding who Miyao actually is will shed some light as well.
The Three Kings almost feel like "the Witch" of this mystery this time. The manipulation and atrocities being caused by the Three Kings might be a veil for different factions or individuals that are causing the world problems that happen throughout phase 1. But at the same time, the Three Kings might just represent a scapegoat for human nature which is used to blame all the problems of the world on while in actuality it could just be human nature itself.
It seems like understanding more about the 24 main characters are also important to think about. If using Umineko logic, the true culprit behind the Three Kings would likely be the 4 knights, one from each faction that are moles. So understanding more about each of the Gauntlet Knights might be another key to getting closer to the truth. The existence of CPPs also makes it more important to read between the lines now, to figure out if a character has an alternate personality in them and if that personality might be one of the moles. I expect some CPPs in contrast to Miyao and Meow may have differences so subtle that it will be very difficult to catch them.
For characters who aren't the main 24, I'm actually wondering if it is possible that characters such as Seshat, Jestress, and Vier might actually be CPP personality representations of some of the main cast of 24 characters. I don't know which characters specifically could represent them, but that's something I'll be thinking about when I reread Ciconia.
Then again, this also might be another trap from Ryukishi on those who have read Umineko or Higurashi. Wouldn't be surprised if that were the case considering the recent Higurashi Gou & Sotsu anime completely played with what past Higurashi viewers expected.
I'm planning to reread Ciconia at some point in the near future, so I wanted to post again to share new thoughts and also to try and help myself sort through things to think about on the second read since I'll have a new perspective from having read Phase 1 before. I'm interested in seeing if any of the theories here end up getting proven true later when Phase 2 eventually releases.
Unfortunately, there are some things I really don't understand, such as the Wisdom presented throughout the VN. Can't comment as much on those elements.
"Wisdom" seems to refer, at least in part, to pivotal B3W discoveries that have been suppressed or otherwise controlled in the A3W era. In particular, Seshat says this:
This is oddly specific, to say the least. I haven't yet figured out how to make given numbers add up, but I'm about 90% sure that this is a reference to nuclear energy in general and atomic bombs in particular. The description of "silver-colored metal" would be consistent with plutonium, the "can be divided into 381 parts" is likely a reference to a number of fundamental particles or nucleons, and the "small stellated truncated dodecahedron weighing 403 grams" is clearly describing a very specific sample of the element in question ("weighing 403 grams" is in physics terms definitely an extensive property, as opposed to an intensive property), possibly with reference to a crystal structure. As far as I'm concerned, the most straightforward conjecture from all of this is that "Wisdom 19080630" represents the fuel of the atomic bomb that created the "Sea of Glass" (perhaps it's worth noting for any Zoomers in the audience that "glass parking lot" was once an idiom for the result of deploying nuclear weapons, especially in the Middle East, the idea being that the exceptional heat of a nuclear detonation would fuse the desert sand into a vast monolith of glass).
(Bonus question: does "Third Missing Link" refer to the thing that Vier was studying? To Vier herself? Both?)
One thing I haven't seen mentioned and just started really thinking about is that the "Public Lust" mistranslation is played like a throwaway joke initially, but then it's brought up again -- and explained with the specific Japanese reading involved -- shortly before Christmas. This seems likely to be a deliberate reminder that Kizuna's translations aren't perfect, and more specifically that it can choose the wrong word among homophones (see also: Jayden's "girl friend" vs. "girlfriend", which suggests that this phenomenon is not limited to interpreting Japanese-speaking users). Considering that it's mentioned multiple times and seems to be common enough that Kizuna users are aware of the problem, I suspect that we will see (or, perhaps more to the point, have seen) a more consequential example of Kizuna mistranslation that isn't pointed out to the reader.
Another angle (although I admit this is quarter-baked at best) is that it's hinting at a double meaning in one of the other order names. The Ninth Prime Chivalric Order seems especially worthy of scrutiny, both for its role in the story and for the name breaking from the "Order of [Thing]" pattern. The only possibility I've come up with is that isn't absolute nonsense is that if you cram it into the mold of the others it could be "The Order of the Ninth Prime", i.e. the Order of 23. What that would mean is anyone's guess; there's no shortage of possible interpretations, especially if goroawase and numerology are brought into the mix (Goroawase in a Ryukishi07 story? My goodness; I must retire posthaste to my fainting couch.). The most obvious connection to me would be that "23" somehow represents a predecessor of "34" (i.e. the whole Miyoko/Satoko/Lambdadelta/Vier axis), whatever that might mean. I have no idea how to make that connection work with the Japanese name (第九最上騎士団), but that could just be because I only have enough knowledge of Japanese to be able to look up definitions and readings. The Japanese name offers its own mystery in the form of "最上", which is evidently rich with potential naval, geographic, and literary significance... unless it just means "best".
The Order of the Wisteria is odd in that the Japanese script uses katakana to transliterate "wisteria", despite Japanese having a perfectly cromulent word for it (藤, fuji; but not as in Mount Fuji... unless it is, because the mountain's name predates written Japanese and there's apparently no consensus on the true etymology). I'm not sure where to go with that, but it strikes me as noteworthy.
I'm drawing a blank on any raw wordplay for the Order of Prometheus. It could have a more thematic double meaning in that the Prometheus of Greek mythology is well-known for two things. The first thing is stealing fire from the gods and giving it to humans. There's an obvious parallel with the idea of preserving Wisdom for later use by, or on behalf of, humanity against the gods. The second thing is how Zeus punished Prometheus for stealing fire: chained to a rock where an eagle would eat his liver right out of his body during the day, while his liver would regrow overnight. Indefinitely. Unfortunately, I can't think of how a recurrence of gruesome suffering orchestrated by an aggrieved deity could possibly be relevant to a When They Cry novel (/s).
(Fun but probably useless fact: "(Chivalric) Order" and "Knight Brigade" (as in "Aerial Knight Brigade") in English are the exact same term in the Japanese script: 騎士団)
Spoiler warning for ciconia obviously
Here are the currently known Wisdom thingys:
####
19080630- small stellated truncated dodecahedron in chapter 12.
1908-06-30 - Tunguska Event- 12 megaton explosion in east Siberia that was supposedly from a meteor air burst, no crater but 830 miles of fallen trees.
18721205- triakis icosahedron in chapter 21, vaporized our favorite italian plumber.
1872-12-05- "The Mary Celeste", a sailing ship was found completely abandoned, cargo intact, with the ten crew members missing and no signs of distress or violence.
19940305- totem shape, chapter 24, the 4d printed totems meant to destroy ocean life/drinkable water, dropped from space.
1994-03-05- TUBSAT-B Earth imaging satellite lost contact.
Also the date of a news article about a satellite (Milstar) meant for nuclear war going offline due to electrical problem while in orbit (seems to fit the games themes more, but the date is uncertain).
####
I think these events match that description pretty well.
I think that the events at these dates may reference what the Wisdoms can do, since the one relating to a missing crew vaporized Mario (both disappeared "without a trace").
I'm guessing when translated Vier could know what happened on those days (learning of aliens or gods something), or learn of the powers that caused those events.
@SimicEngineer
Looking at the list of fibonacci numbers, 21 is the 9th number, coming before 34. However, if you don't count 0 as the first number but the 0th (which is what wikipedia does), 34 would be the 9th number in sequence. Fibonacci numbers make up the golden ratio, but idk how the golden ratio is relevant.
Other things that I've looked at:
The lyrics of Apocalypsis II: "Hell will last for 1000 years. You are the only one that can end it... The Last Revelation. His return to save us all."
The only thing in the Bible's book of revelations I've seen referencing 1000 years was Revelations 20. It basically says: Satan will be bound for 1000 years in a locked abyss to stop his deceiving of nations, then will be free for a short time. Those who were killed for not worshiping Satan will reign for 1000 years with Christ as saints. Satan will try to be evil again but will be thrown into a boiling pit of fire along with with the beast and false prophet.
I think the "abyss" may be the time capsule thing in the underground lab, which sends someone 1000 years in the future. So is a "Satan" inside the capsule? Will they be bound in there?
The text in the Selcom has been translated, it written in runes, referencing the destruction of the tower of babel and other verses about prophecies, however, instead of using the word "millstone" it uses "factory".
I think the most obvious foreshadowing this could have is the Kizuna translation system shuts down, or Selcom's shut down, and the protaganists are scattered across the world. Mirroring the story of the tower of babel.
The text on the clock image is also translatable, it is the bookshelf symbol 7 font from microsoft. You can translate it by brute force typing into fonts.com make sure to use all caps.
Here is the translated text:
buenos Aires, Santiago, Chicago, New-York, Denver, Los-Angeles, San Francisco, Tokyo, Midway, Wellington, Honolulu, Nouméa, Hong Kong, Taipei, Bangkok, Yonganm Karachi, Cairo, Dubai, Paris, Rome, Azores, Moscow.
not sure how these are relevant yet except maybe the first one, maybe they'll be attacked in order, maybe it's just text to look cool
And here is my very convoluted theory about the shapes based on coincidences (probably means nothing):
#
19080630 is a small stellated truncated dodecahedron.
The non-truncated version of this shape is a small stellated dodecahedron.
What stood out to me is on Wikipedia "A small stellated dodecahedron can be seen in a floor mosaic in St Mark's Basilica, Venice by Paolo Uccello circa 1430. The same shape is central to two lithographs by M. C. Escher: Contrast (Order and Chaos) (1950) and Gravitation (1952)."
The floor mosaic has 16 symbols around the dodecahedron, which is the same number of ticks marks around the clock with the moons on it. (Probably a coincidence). The other thing that got to me is the shape is referenced my M.C. Escher, a surrealist artist like Dali (who is referenced in the novel directly).
The dodecahedron showing up in churches seems like a nice coincidence, I have no idea why this shape in particular was used in these artworks, or why there were 16 shapes around the one in the church.
What does all of this mean? I have no idea. Maybe the shapes have meaning, maybe they don't.
#
---
Edit:
I've noticed the shape also looks like the candy konpeitou which is referenced in Umineko ep8. maybe it has connections to Lambda (she uses konpeitou in her attacks). This is also a really far stretch but I had to write it down.
---
To summarize:
Wisdom relates to dates of weird events, could have the powers of those weird events.
Read Revelations to understand the plot.
9th prime order, 9th Fibonacci number is 34
Random looking text can be deciphered
What do the shapes mean????? Probably nothing?
Questions I have:
What year does this game take place in? WWIII was 100 years ago. Did anything happen 1000/900 years before? Or is it just in the super future?
Why is Miyao so cute?
Why can't they all be happy?
I love all of the knights in the game and hope they can get a happy future and ending, it's my honest wish.
Amazingly detailed, well-researched and thought-provoking research here that you have done. You have gone into such amazing depth that I will need time to process it all and like you, I want for them all a happy ending though sadly we are reminded it is not possible - for me, nothing is set in stone and every chance is an opportunity for things to change. Your research may well help bring about a miracle! :)
The part after the credits seem really interesting to me, and here are my theories on what we'll see in the future:
- Koshka will be the Rika/Battler (looper in general) of this WTC, she pretty much told us so by saying that "she will be a new Koshka in a new world"
- Miyao will kill Koshka in the future loops, as he already killed Lingji in this one
- Miyao's mother, who will probably be revealed as a new of already shown character lives inside Miyao as the murder program
- The scary ultra secret machine in Vier's cool super-hidden laboratory will most likely be used as the solution to prevent WWIV. I keep getting this feeling that it's a time machine
- LATO is hiding something, and the thing Seshat stole is of high importance. It will be a key item in the future, maybe related to Vier's machine and/or deciphering the ancient machines?
- We will definitely see Bernkastel/Lambdadelta in one of the characters. Can't wait to see a character with blue long hair having a cute and dark side. Definitely a "nipah" incoming.
- Mind control 8MS a la Hinamizawa Syndrome I also see being a thing. Aysha suddenly becoming this bloodthirsty warmongering maniac didn't sit right with me.
- Something is wrong with Naomi. Her character bio is interesting to read.
- As with the 8MS, the drugs Gauntlet Knights have to take has a suspiciously small role in the story. They keep telling us about doses and give us a quick explanation but I'm positive there is more about it. Probably also connected to the whole ciconia/factory -born thing.
- Jayden saying he will be at Miyao's side forever at the end was quite a shock: even in death?!! There is something more going on here. My guess is is that they will secretly remember something from this episode in future loops, like Keiichi in Higurashi at one point.
Quite the text to read, sorry :P. These are the things that I expect in the future, while it's fresh in my head.The feeling that LATO played a huge role in WWIII also doesn't escape me.