Ability details?

[JunK]

is there any further details on these abilities anywhere, and if not, can we get them?

im just playing through the game, going the path of the angry tortoise and some of these abilities just do not make sense to me, without further details.

for example i already have Hard Block, which says "increases your chance at blocking , but consumes more energy" and at the moment it takes 5 energy. but i can get Iron Curtain, which says "Defensive stance which high block chance and low energy consumption", except it still takes 4 energy, and a whopping 2 tonus. what the hell?

2 tonus is not worth 1 energy, especially since there is no details about what "high block chance" is. how much block chance? hard block has an increased block chance and iron curtain has a high block chance, is it higher than hard block? is it actually worth 2 tonus per round? (highly highly doubt it, that seems insane)

also just really disliking this "tonus" crap in general. its like stat decay, but happens after every single ROUND depending on your moveset, instead of every single day. bonkers

[JunK]

differences in abilities like this as well, what is the point of this??
Low Kick costs me 1 initiative, does 8 dmg and cost 8 energy.
Heavy Hook costs 1 initiative, does 8 dmg and cost 8 energy....except it also costs a tonus

why? why would i ever use heavy hook over low kick in this instance? anyone know?

even Heavy Uppercut cost 2 initiative, does 17 dmg, cost 16 energy and uses a tonus. so instead of using that, why wouldn't i just use 2x low kick? 1 less dmg, same energy, same initiative, no tonus

i just don't understand

[yutterh]

Depend on who you are fighting. While you will get more kicks out of someone blocks it does way less damage. But a lot of that stuff will have more shifts the higher your strength. Also the uppercut is just a early damage dealer, later moves will have the same damage as the kick and same initiative cost but lower energy and tonus. Also tonus is a better system because you don't lose your stats just have to work out a little bit. Later on through the tapes your tonus will fill faster.

Edit: but I do agree with you that we need better details in exactly what the abilities do. I would like a dodge or block percentage so I can properly way the differences.

[Fringehunter7719]

Originally posted by JunK:

differences in abilities like this as well, what is the point of this??
Low Kick costs me 1 initiative, does 8 dmg and cost 8 energy.
Heavy Hook costs 1 initiative, does 8 dmg and cost 8 energy....except it also costs a tonus

They have different stat scaling. Low kick does 7+20%str damage for 5+60%str stamina, Heavy Hook does 7+30%str damage for 6+40%str stamina. Heavy Hook also requires 15 points of endurance invested, and that you spend 150 GPP on it.

At your particular strength value it doesn't matter what you use. If you don't have both, or you have a different amount of strength that usually won't be true.

Originally posted by JunK:

even Heavy Uppercut cost 2 initiative, does 17 dmg, cost 16 energy and uses a tonus. so instead of using that, why wouldn't i just use 2x low kick? 1 less dmg, same energy, same initiative, no tonus

That changes your ratio of attack moves, and does 1 less damage. In a fight that isn't close that won't concern you, so it's an unappealing option. But again, the moves perform so similarly only at your particular strength value.

For example at 29 strength 2 Low Kicks does a total of 24 damage for 44 stamina. But 1 Heavy Uppercut does 21 damage for 25 stamina.

[Fringehunter7719]

Block and dodge moves could use some love on their descriptions. I think the reason the chances aren't displayed is that the formulas are more complex.

The stamina costs are displayed in the skill tree, same as offensive moves. The chance of success (and proportion of damage reduced in the case of block) though is hidden from the player, although it's easy to observe that some moves have much higher chances (and greater blocked damage reductions) than others.

You're paying the tonus with Iron Curtain for the greater overall damage mitigation, not the reduced energy cost.

I can tell you that dodge chance scales with agility. I don't know if the scaling is the same per ability, or the exact value (though I'd hazard a guess at about 2% per point). I don't know if block chance or reduction scales with stamina (or another stat, but endurance is the tree associated with block equivalent to agility pairing with dodge), I haven't tested that.

[Fringehunter7719]

It's worth knowing a couple of things about tonus as well. It refills faster with neurotraining than regular training.

There are two perks that make it restore extremely fast if you have both. One comes from watching the 2nd (I think) film from Apu's store and one comes from watching the film from the delivery firm.

There's also a special training with Gold option that opens up about half to two thirds of the way through the game that allows you to temporarily eliminate tonus costs for a skill.

[Mr_Drasuz]

Why block or dodge ?
ennemy have different skills and passive. some ennemy are stronger against dodge , other are stronger against block, some just don't care about you and just hit hard. You need to strategize.

How to chose the correct dodge or block ? it realy depend on the situation and where you go on the skill tree.
"Iron curtain" for example is better than "hard block" but it cost some tonus. Is it worth it to use it ? You chose... But I always prefer to win my match and train my tonus back.

For attack skill : The stronger you get (strength stats), the higher the energy cost.
So ... it realy depend on your stats to the more energie/damage efficient for your "build".

Originally posted by JunK:

differences in abilities like this as well, what is the point of this??
Low Kick costs me 1 initiative, does 8 dmg and cost 8 energy.
Heavy Hook costs 1 initiative, does 8 dmg and cost 8 energy....except it also costs a tonus

why? why would i ever use heavy hook over low kick in this instance? anyone know?

even Heavy Uppercut cost 2 initiative, does 17 dmg, cost 16 energy and uses a tonus. so instead of using that, why wouldn't i just use 2x low kick? 1 less dmg, same energy, same initiative, no tonus

i just don't understand

There are different reasons:
- time limit: only 2 round
- limit amount of attack move (depend on your fighting style)
- depend on your build/stats => energie/damage cost efficiency ( if you have high stamina/ high energie regen you can put more heavy hit move who cost more energie)

[JunK]

Originally posted by Mr_Drasuz:

"Iron curtain" for example is better than "hard block" but it cost some tonus.


There are different reasons:
- time limit: only 2 round
- limit amount of attack move (depend on your fighting style)
- depend on your build/stats => energie/damage cost efficiency ( if you have high stamina/ high energie regen you can put more heavy hit move who cost more energie)

what makes you say iron curtain is better than hard block? just cause its more expensive to use and further down the tree? thats about the only evidence i can see to suggest its "better"

also yeah i realize the str scaling stuff affects different attacks, but this really only comes into play i'd imagine much later in the game, like the above example of having 29 str low kick vs heavy uppercut. but you're not going to have 29 str before you have much higher stam

also, as far as i have noticed, literally every single skill including from the bear tree line has a higher str scaling tilt to stamina than damage, which seems kinda wrong too. almost like you're always punished to push up strength

[Yo]

Originally posted by Fringehunter7719:

Block and dodge moves could use some love on their descriptions. I think the reason the chances aren't displayed is that the formulas are more complex.

The stamina costs are displayed in the skill tree, same as offensive moves. The chance of success (and proportion of damage reduced in the case of block) though is hidden from the player, although it's easy to observe that some moves have much higher chances (and greater blocked damage reductions) than others.

You're paying the tonus with Iron Curtain for the greater overall damage mitigation, not the reduced energy cost.

I can tell you that dodge chance scales with agility. I don't know if the scaling is the same per ability, or the exact value (though I'd hazard a guess at about 2% per point). I don't know if block chance or reduction scales with stamina (or another stat, but endurance is the tree associated with block equivalent to agility pairing with dodge), I haven't tested that.

There's a stamina skill which improves your block based on your stamina. This implies it normally does not scale with stamina, altho who knows