My thoughts on Punch Club 2 after 100% both games

[Blastaz]

So I absolutely loved Punch Club 1. I thought it was a really smart mix of pop culture references and game play loop. Punch Club 2 comes out and is an instant purchase. I've sunk 30 hours in it super fast and got all the achievements in just one run (well technically 2 as I needed to start a second game for five minutes to get the candy achievement that had bugged).

Punch Club 2 builds interestingly on the world of Punch Club 1, literally layering the story on the bones of the first city in the manner of Pentiment. It feels like it has something to say here, but I didn't quite get it. The world doesn't quite gel completely as it is unsure whether this is trying to parody Cyber Punk or the same 80s action movies the first game did. As a result the game feels slightly tonally discordant and not quite as satisfying as the previous. The ending is trippy as anything, while that succession of cut scenes all in a rush is an interesting story telling technique, I didn't like the way they leaned into the crazy elements of the DLC with the final reveal -although the villain was obvious and deserved to get punched. That said the humour was still there, it was a funny game to play.

Mechanically it feels like a step back almost. They replaced fan decryed stat decay with the tonus system that functionally is exactly the same. This time you need to run forwards to stand still not every day (which could be fixed quite easily with the stat stick skills) but merely after every single fight. To me this felt psychologically almost more limiting, especially as there were absolutely 0 non tonus skills in the advanced skill trees. My agi build used an awful lot of high kick till quite far through the game, and that felt really bad. A few improved non tonus skills scattered through the skill trees would be much better. Gold's training was useful, but super annoying as the cool down period for training was different from the buff length so you couldn't just keep the same 2/3 skills tonus free for the sake of a few hours training each day.

Lastly, despite the five year development time (a fact actually mocked in a fourth wall breaking scene) the final act of the game felt rushed. There is just less to do than in punch club 1, no reason to replay (all achievements in one run), the cop/gym jobs identical and able to do them both at once, the act 3 job being identical to the same job in act 2 being the real let down (compared to the foray into movies/ninjas of the original), and with no Russia/prison interlude. There seemed to be a lot of content in Chapter 2 where you could do both Cop/Gym jobs simultaneously as well as all three Chapter 1 jobs, compared to Chapter 3 where you could do only 1 job and given the high cost of fighting in the league money suddenly becomes a constraint again. Chapter 3 needs more content! That said the chapter "3.5" ending fight system was brilliant and has real potential for expansion/dlc turning everything into a puzzle with fixed resources.

Another mechanical problem is that most of the side quests give rubbish rewards, you don't get money, you don't get GPP, there is very little way to get Old Skool Cool points (what do you do for movies etc if you go cop? is there any reason to go cop?). You are just doing side quests for banter half the time and while the banter is funny they could offer a bit more.

Also the overwriting fixed saves to exit while you can still save multiple games is trash. I just started alt-f4 the entire time. Either have an iron man mode (which there isn't much need for given there's no fail state or time limit) or just let us save and reload as normal.

Overall I did like the game, and have mainlined it for a few days. But I'm not going to replay until more content, which was not true of 1.

[Fringehunter7719]

I haven't played Punch Club 1, but a lot of this critique feels extremely accurate to me.

[Nailkaiser]

Agreed mostly. One of the things I noticed right away was that because it's so long and linear, there's almost zero reason to replay it. Especially with what happens in the last act. That's a problem Punch Club didn't have, as you almost had to replay it several times to do everything within it.

I don't think it's necessarily a terrible thing, it's just a different type of game design.

[Yo]

You're right that after so many years, the game feels a little bit of a disappointment compared to what it could be. But for now, all i want is a multiplayer mode like Punch Club 1. They're a studio of dozens of people, there's no excuse for them not to have a real-time live 1v1 fights, just need 1 cheap dedicated server since even if you have 300 ping it doesn't matter cuz the fighters fight themselves. And also multiplayer challenges like in Punch Club 1 where you can create challenges for other to fight. But the 1v1 multiplayer would be a lot more fun.

For 1v1, you can make it a best of 5 rounds (just like it's in singleplayer), but each round is a best of 2, where first player A picks skills and player B picks after him, then hp is reset and player B picks first and player A picks after him. To avoid too many ties, the amount of HP difference would be the decider, for example in Round 1 A first player wins with 20 hp difference, in round 1 B second player wins with 35 hp difference, this means overall player 1 Wins the round with +15 hp and the score is 1-0, then repeat until whoever reaches 3-X first. That would be the most fair way. Alternatively, a blind mode where both players pick skills blindly aka in secret, though that one is a bit more like rock paper scissor, so i like the first way more.

[Yo]

Originally posted by Nailkaiser:

Agreed mostly. One of the things I noticed right away was that because it's so long and linear, there's almost zero reason to replay it. Especially with what happens in the last act. That's a problem Punch Club didn't have, as you almost had to replay it several times to do everything within it.

I don't think it's necessarily a terrible thing, it's just a different type of game design.

You can replay it to beat it with all 3 paths, but i do admit it's pretty boring on the 2nd and 3rd playthrough asides from from the fights themselves and unlocking new skills.

[Armageddon38]

Originally posted by Yo:

Originally posted by Nailkaiser:

Agreed mostly. One of the things I noticed right away was that because it's so long and linear, there's almost zero reason to replay it. Especially with what happens in the last act. That's a problem Punch Club didn't have, as you almost had to replay it several times to do everything within it.

I don't think it's necessarily a terrible thing, it's just a different type of game design.

You can replay it to beat it with all 3 paths, but i do admit it's pretty boring on the 2nd and 3rd playthrough asides from from the fights themselves and unlocking new skills.

I'm considering a second playthrough, but I don't feel like I'd be able to speed through the game even with the knowledge I now have.

[Yo]

Originally posted by Armageddon:

Originally posted by Yo:

You can replay it to beat it with all 3 paths, but i do admit it's pretty boring on the 2nd and 3rd playthrough asides from from the fights themselves and unlocking new skills.

I'm considering a second playthrough, but I don't feel like I'd be able to speed through the game even with the knowledge I now have.

Use cheat engine speedhack, put it on x5 speed. This way instead of 20-25 hours for a playthrough it will only take you about 6-7 hours. If you put it on x10 speed, you can prob shave off another hour, but there's diminishing returns, plus the perceived fps will decrease. I can run the game at 75 fps on x5 speed (equivalent to 375 fps on x1 speed) about 95% of the time, but on x10 speed you will have half the framerate, so about 35-40 fps. The game cannot use your gpu at 100% because it's a non-demanding pixel game, so at least for me it never runs above 400 fps even if my gpu is at 20%. Then because i run it at x5 speed that's x5 less fps, so it becomes around 75-80 fps. Which again doesn't matter much because at x5 speed the frames are so fast you won't even notice the fps if there ain't a counter.

[JP_Diaz]

Same here, 100% both games and couldn't agree more to OP

[Blastaz]

I'd add that on the mechanics side I do like the greater flexibility. In punch club 1 you very much followed the golden path for your build and only swapped out an ability when you got a new better one. In 2 you have to look at what your opponent is doing and work out how to counter them. Do you try and drain their stamina? Go all out on damage in a DPS check? Drain their initiative and leave them unable to attack? When you actually look at your toolkit their is a much greater degree of tactics involved. That's what was so fun about the ending fights.

[r.wardy]

Originally posted by Blastaz:

I'd add that on the mechanics side I do like the greater flexibility. In punch club 1 you very much followed the golden path for your build and only swapped out an ability when you got a new better one. In 2 you have to look at what your opponent is doing and work out how to counter them. Do you try and drain their stamina? Go all out on damage in a DPS check? Drain their initiative and leave them unable to attack? When you actually look at your toolkit their is a much greater degree of tactics involved. That's what was so fun about the ending fights.

I agree, the fighting this time is more tactical. Many find the new tonus-system worse than the decay-system from the first game, i feel quite the opposite.
I think the tonus-system wasn't just a replacement to force players to spend time on training, but rather to take into consideration during fights. If you go crazy with the better skills that have 2 or 3 cost, you might run out of your base stat and have to take some off in long fights.
In all honesty, getting tonus back after a fight is really not that much of a chore.
And let's not forget about spoon boy. With this system, you can lower stats you overtrained or use stats of secondary concern to replenish the tonus of your most important stat. A lower stat can be trained significantly faster than a higher one, especially if you're willing to change the chips.
No, i really don't think the main intention was to extend the length of the game.

[GodfatherPlunger]

I agree that side missions need a better reward and I was suprised that I didn't get anything for a lot of them, but like you said in the last post, the combat skills and mechanics are far superior and more strategic and skill variety is much better.

I don't see how tonus is the same as decay. I was a little stingy using it which is a nice risk reward mechanic, as you can risk fighting with fewer strong skills to progress faster.

Also: With the perk for it you get it back basically instantly. No longer do I need to workout a WEEK to get from 20 to 21 just because it drains so fast... This is soooo much more relaxed. With the perks for training equipment I got more than one bar back per tick ! So after a short amount of time, you can make actual progress again.

About it feeling bad that you used less advanced skills: That was also an issue in punch club 1, because some of the later ones were actually worse than earlier skills.

[r.wardy]

Originally posted by Blastaz:

...
Lastly, despite the five year development time (a fact actually mocked in a fourth wall breaking scene) the final act of the game felt rushed. There is just less to do than in punch club 1, no reason to replay (all achievements in one run), the cop/gym jobs identical and able to do them both at once, the act 3 job being identical to the same job in act 2 being the real let down (compared to the foray into movies/ninjas of the original), and with no Russia/prison interlude. There seemed to be a lot of content in Chapter 2 where you could do both Cop/Gym jobs simultaneously as well as all three Chapter 1 jobs, compared to Chapter 3 where you could do only 1 job and given the high cost of fighting in the league money suddenly becomes a constraint again. Chapter 3 needs more content! That said the chapter "3.5" ending fight system was brilliant and has real potential for expansion/dlc turning everything into a puzzle with fixed resources.

Another mechanical problem is that most of the side quests give rubbish rewards, you don't get money, you don't get GPP, there is very little way to get Old Skool Cool points (what do you do for movies etc if you go cop? is there any reason to go cop?). You are just doing side quests for banter half the time and while the banter is funny they could offer a bit more.

Also the overwriting fixed saves to exit while you can still save multiple games is trash. I just started alt-f4 the entire time. Either have an iron man mode (which there isn't much need for given there's no fail state or time limit) or just let us save and reload as normal.

Overall I did like the game, and have mainlined it for a few days. But I'm not going to replay until more content, which was not true of 1.

I agree that the 3rd chapter feels more empty - in terms of new things - than the first two, in fact, it is really just an extension of the second one. But it may depend on how quick you progress through the leagues and how fast you respond to side quests.
If you rush through the second league, your mom gets to hospital before you maxed out the cop job or gym. It feels more like you're under pressure that way, in your first play through, anyway.

I do, however, prefer chapter two in this game over the one in PC1. The prison/Siberia part was anything but exciting.

Once you return there was, if i remember correctly, only the champion mansion before they expanded the dark fist storyline with the DLC, otherwise that part would have been just as empty. Aside from maybe picking up side story lines you left unfinished, there was really only the occasional visit to the grocery store.

Anyway, the storytelling in chapter 3.5 does feel like an exposition dump that could have been stretched out more. Piecing things together works really better if it doesn't come in one huge block. Ok, it worked in "The usual suspects", but that's different.

About getting all the achievements in one run, that's a glitch. You're not supposed to be able to do that. I ran into the same situation on my first play through.
The save game dilemma might also just be a bug. I posted it in the bug forum, but there was no response.

Finally, to answer your questions. I hope they were not rhetorical.
In the cop route, there are no more movies. Which means, yes, you will not get the bonuses from those. It takes extra points from the gym to unlock all of them, and most are specifically designed to help with the gym. The reward from the cop route is extra GPP, one hundred every time you can manage to fill the daily bar completely. If that's better or worse than the movies can be debated.

Overall, i was entertained and had fun with this game. For additional play throughs, yea, plural, i restricted myself to play by arbitrary rules.
One run was for instance not using any slime food and certainly not beating them, poor little things.
In another, i played strict by the law. Cop all the way, no cheating with Lil Bobo no drugs from the smuggler and no gym at all.
Just some ideas for those, who are still hesitant to play it a second time.

[yutterh]

Originally posted by r.wardy:

Originally posted by Blastaz:

I'd add that on the mechanics side I do like the greater flexibility. In punch club 1 you very much followed the golden path for your build and only swapped out an ability when you got a new better one. In 2 you have to look at what your opponent is doing and work out how to counter them. Do you try and drain their stamina? Go all out on damage in a DPS check? Drain their initiative and leave them unable to attack? When you actually look at your toolkit their is a much greater degree of tactics involved. That's what was so fun about the ending fights.

I agree, the fighting this time is more tactical. Many find the new tonus-system worse than the decay-system from the first game, i feel quite the opposite.
I think the tonus-system wasn't just a replacement to force players to spend time on training, but rather to take into consideration during fights. If you go crazy with the better skills that have 2 or 3 cost, you might run out of your base stat and have to take some off in long fights.
In all honesty, getting tonus back after a fight is really not that much of a chore.
And let's not forget about spoon boy. With this system, you can lower stats you overtrained or use stats of secondary concern to replenish the tonus of your most important stat. A lower stat can be trained significantly faster than a higher one, especially if you're willing to change the chips.
No, i really don't think the main intention was to extend the length of the game.

Agreed, I much prefer the tonus system and agree with everything else too.

As for the main thing I too feel the ending was a little meh, but overall I liked this one better then the first one.

[Blastaz]

Originally posted by yutterh:

Originally posted by r.wardy:

I agree, the fighting this time is more tactical. Many find the new tonus-system worse than the decay-system from the first game, i feel quite the opposite.
I think the tonus-system wasn't just a replacement to force players to spend time on training, but rather to take into consideration during fights. If you go crazy with the better skills that have 2 or 3 cost, you might run out of your base stat and have to take some off in long fights.
In all honesty, getting tonus back after a fight is really not that much of a chore.
And let's not forget about spoon boy. With this system, you can lower stats you overtrained or use stats of secondary concern to replenish the tonus of your most important stat. A lower stat can be trained significantly faster than a higher one, especially if you're willing to change the chips.
No, i really don't think the main intention was to extend the length of the game.

Agreed, I much prefer the tonus system and agree with everything else too.

As for the main thing I too feel the ending was a little meh, but overall I liked this one better then the first one.

Having just played a little bit of punch club 1 again (apart from the fact that it said punch club 2 would come out in 2019 lol) I'm amazed that 2 actually has better graphics :)

[Yo]

Originally posted by Blastaz:

Originally posted by yutterh:

Agreed, I much prefer the tonus system and agree with everything else too.

As for the main thing I too feel the ending was a little meh, but overall I liked this one better then the first one.

Having just played a little bit of punch club 1 again (apart from the fact that it said punch club 2 would come out in 2019 lol) I'm amazed that 2 actually has better graphics :)

considering it took 5 years to develop, would be amazing if it didn't

[Belphegor]

Just finished the game..
I agree that the Storyline here is more linear compared to PC1..
I lost the appeal to replay the game for the 2nd run..
And the ending also could be better - it feels very short and anticlimax.

Overall this is still a good game, a decent sequel for the great original PC.