Dodges do not work?

[36ggz]

Dexterity 23 vs opponents with Dex 14. They got full series of hits, none of my dodges save (1000 winds, 100 winds, dodge with contra). In response with my series of kick: 5-6 series of kicks and punches all miss (str 9 vs str 11).

I am fighting Rorschach and other dex based opponents in second league. Scorpion and Tiger builds simply do not cut, as AI opponents cheat too much.

My build is like 9/24/22 vs 12/15/14 and MC loses half of HP in round 1 vs Rorschach. Any ideas how accuracy / dodge / block work in this game? Have they nerfed Dex builds so much since the last time?

EDIT: No loses from energy management, only because Tigher / Scorpion defense moves generally stopped working.

[Pudding]

Dexterity do not affect dodge anymore, only your "action points" per turn.
Also you can't dodge if you can't step back anymore, the same goes for your opponent

[Fringehunter7719]

Originally posted by 36ggz:

Any ideas how accuracy / dodge / block work in this game?

Roughly:

• There is no accuracy. Undefended attacks and unsuccessfully defended attacks just hit.
  
  
• Each dodge (or block) ability has a base chance to work, which can be affected upwards by modifiers equipped either in your skill slots or stance, or downwards by modifiers equipped in your opponent's skill slots or stance. And vice versa for your opponent with their defences.
  
  
• Whenever you are attacked one of your defensive slots will be picked at random, and the skill in that slot will be applied to the attack. Unless cornered you always pay its stamina or initiative cost, even if the block/dodge is unsuccessful, which makes low chance defences super bad for your stamina for negligible benefit.
  
  
• Successful blocks negate some damage, depending on the particular block skill, and most special effects attached to the attack.
  
  
• Successful dodges negate all damage and any special effects attached to the attack.
  
  
• With a dodge you will step backwards once, whether you succeed or not. If you cannot step back, because you are cornered against the "ropes" of the ring (sometimes these are not actually visible in a street brawl, but you can only step back the same fixed number of times) then you act as though you had no defence (i.e. no cost and get hit automatically).
  
  
• Being cornered because you have too many dodges/your opponent has too many push backs relative to the number of incoming attacks/your own ability to force the opponent back is bad if you rely on dodge. You just take all the damage.
  
  
• If you would be in that situation in the next round you might be better off with some blocks or empty slots mixed in, so you cede less ground. You could also equip more push of your own, in some situations.
  
  
• The same risks of being cornered apply to the opponent. Be aware of this if you can get a round where you have lots of energy and the starting initiative, which picks up exactly where the previous round left off, but with both fighters positioned centrally in the "ring".

[VERG]

Hi
I won with him having Berserker school playing skills only kicks without any defence. In first round 4 offensive skills in second 3 to be safe with stamina 23 strength 14 agility 17 stamina

[madcapbeatitude]

Originally posted by 36ggz:

Dexterity 23 vs opponents with Dex 14. They got full series of hits, none of my dodges save (1000 winds, 100 winds, dodge with contra). In response with my series of kick: 5-6 series of kicks and punches all miss (str 9 vs str 11).

I am fighting Rorschach and other dex based opponents in second league. Scorpion and Tiger builds simply do not cut, as AI opponents cheat too much.

My build is like 9/24/22 vs 12/15/14 and MC loses half of HP in round 1 vs Rorschach. Any ideas how accuracy / dodge / block work in this game? Have they nerfed Dex builds so much since the last time?

EDIT: No loses from energy management, only because Tigher / Scorpion defense moves generally stopped working.

The other information in this thread is very useful if you're playing as many manner of dodge artist, but FWIW I cannot get Rorschach out of my apartment to save my life.

My character has 12/22/17 stats, and is pretty diversely developed in the Monkey school of fighting. Against a masterful blocker like Rorschach, I've been trying to use the Scorpion school to break his formidable defenses.

For my modifiers, I'm using BOTH "Stabbing Punch," and "Weak Point," in order to reduce both the success rate and effectiveness of his blocks by 15%. He still blocks almost everything, so I'm mostly forcing heavily reduced damage through his Iron Curtain blocks that never fail. My third modifier is "Fake Move," which is ordinarily a valuable source of extra initiative for me, since the game's advanced blocks tend to expend initiative instead of energy, allowing me to use my energy mostly for attacking.

I am not getting cornered by Rorschach, or else I would work "Pendulum," back into the mix.

For my defensive skills, I just have "Backdrop," in there all three times. Against most high damage attackers, this is a valuable source of extra damage that helps me supplement my damage output. In spite of having 3/3 defensive slots filled with a dodge and no shortage of energy or initiative, Rorschach pounds the hell out of me with a full combo every single turn. This prevents me from regenerating initiative OR reflecting damage, so my own damage output is significantly reduced.

FInally, for my attacks I've been experimenting with various mixtures of Yoko Geri for high damage, Ura Tsuki Chudan for cost-efficient damage, and usually just one Qi concentration so I can make sure I can afford all of the Yoko Geri kicks I'm throwing around. For perspective, this fighting style dominated Gold, and this attacking style usually tears Boris the Blade limb from limb, although for a dodger like him I use the Tiger style and different modifiers.

In order to continue with the professional league, I'm thinking of challenging Cyberdude and Trendyman (a brawler and a fellow dodger, respectively) just so I can gain meaningful GPP from a fight. Rorschach will start challenging me if my GPP passes his, though, and fending off challenges from Boris has been a valuable source of income while I'm trying to get Rorschach out of my apartment.

I'm simply at a loss. In a fight between a Scorpion style fighter and a Tactician style fighter, their buffs should mostly negate each other, leading to a fair-ish fight between a dodger and a blocker, that gets decided by who has the better skills and stats. However, his blocks almost always succeed in spite of me layering debuffs designed to break them, while my character executes almost no dodges despite having high energy and initiative, the Scorpion buffs, 3 dodge skills equipped, and enough agility to unlock the Crystal Viper style. I've considered using performance enhancing drugs, and/or buying a buffing potion from the Yakuza to beat him, but I'm not sure how much of a difference it would make if I had a few more points of stamina or agility before he beats me down.

[madcapbeatitude]

I wanted to add an update:

1. I tried out my Tiger build on Trendyman with those same stats and no potions/drugs. I replaced all of my "Backdrop," dodges with 1000 Winds, kept my attacks the same, and used Pendulum/Fake Moves/Fists of Fury to increase my damage from attacks he couldn't dodge. He went down in the third round, while I still had half of my health. Since Trendyman is built very similarly to how I fight blockers at that stage of the game, I took this as a clear indication that Rorschach is extremely difficult compared to fighters of similar GPP.

2. I BEAT RORSCHACH! Since defeating Trendyman raised by GPP by enough to outrank Rorscach, the jerk challenged me immediately. With this in mind, I made a couple small changes.

A. I incorporated 1000 Winds as a blanket defense into my Scorpion style, since (although it does not reflect damage) it seems to succeed more often than Backdrop. In pursuit of the BEST POSSIBLE defense, I went with pure 1000 Winds on a Scorpion Build. This resulted in at least 1-2 successful dodges on most turns, and turned the fight back into a fight instead of me just getting my butt kicked.

B. I had noticed that my initiative was suffering badly against Rorschach due to his "Aggressive Scream," modifier. Basically, I was working really hard to stop him from blocking, but he was still blocking a lot and it was draining MY initiative, which was a necessary fuel for my defense. There was nothing I could do to mitigate this other than make more successful dodges, which 1000 Winds helped a lot with. HOWEVER, what I could do was fight fire with fire and undermine HIS initiative.

I had some GPP from defeating Trendyman, which I invested in the "Dance," modifier from the middle path of Dancing Monkey - it immediately precedes the Crystal Viper style. Since Rorschach was blocking everything regardless of my debuffs, I removed one of my Scorpion modifiers to make room for "Dance." I reduced Rorschach's blocking EFFECTIVENESS by 15% but didn't worry about his success rate, which I couldn't seem to diminish meaningfully.

The combined result of these changes was that I made more successful dodges, replenished more initiative, and took fewer hits not only by dodging successfully but also by draining Rorscach's initiative in order to shorten his attempted combos.

The fight was still brutally difficult, and I thought I had lost when he landed a full combo and left me with like 3 HP. However, my character made several dodges in a row and managed to knock him out while holding on by a thread. I'm on the fence about whether to fight him again voluntarily, since this first victory felt so dependent on luck. I'm considering accepting his challenge and using potions and drugs to gain more of an advantage next time. Still feels harder, riskier, and more expensive than just avoiding him until I can afford the 25+ agility scorpion path skills.

The main moral of the story is that Rorschach is an absolute beast to face, but I hope my notes might help somebody else who is searching his name in the forums trying to figure out how to deal with this guy.